Author Topic: U.S SOCOM requirement reliability test HK416 VS Colt M4/16 type  (Read 7567 times)

rock

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I hope the PMC could acquire a dozen HK416 for evaluation and as a candidate for the M16 replacement in the near future.
            :thumbsup:
   
     
 
« Last Edit: May 17, 2008, 11:35:46 PM by rock »

prairiefire

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Re: U.S SOCOM requirement reliability test HK416 VS Colt M4/16 type
« Reply #1 on: May 19, 2008, 07:47:39 AM »
According to my sources inside HK Philippines, the PSG has taken delivery of @ 60 units of the HK 416 for testing and evaluation. They have been broken up into groups and sent to various elite units for field trials. Their biggest rival is FERFRANS, who wishes to increase sales to the PNP and AFP beyond the 60 or so units previously sold to the SAF.

Scuttlebutt has it that FERFRANS has the inside track to the deal, though no final decision has yet been made.

Both are quality weapons, though if I had my choice I'd go with the HK 416.
Notwithstanding horrible customer service.  :?

Adroth

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Re: U.S SOCOM requirement reliability test HK416 VS Colt M4/16 type
« Reply #2 on: May 19, 2008, 02:35:43 PM »
Thanks for the info Doc P.

Both are quality weapons, though if I had my choice I'd go with the HK 416.

Care to share your thoughts on why? From observation, you don't take stance regarding weapons lightly. It would be a real education if you shared your thought process on this matter.

 :thumbsup:
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ForceRecon

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Re: U.S SOCOM requirement reliability test HK416 VS Colt M4/16 type
« Reply #3 on: May 19, 2008, 09:31:41 PM »
My buddies in the Recon Marines prefer the standard M16. There aren't many M4 variants to go around to equip a whole squad or platoon.

According to one captain, insurgent snipers usually target the guy with the M4 FIRST as he is assumed to be the commanding officer.

The Marines also prefer to use  the standard iron sights. Putting on accessories like specialized sights or aiming devices just screams "SHOOT ME FIRST! SHOOT ME FIRST!"







prairiefire

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Re: U.S SOCOM requirement reliability test HK416 VS Colt M4/16 type
« Reply #4 on: May 20, 2008, 02:44:34 AM »
Thanks for the info Doc P.

Care to share your thoughts on why? From observation, you don't take stance regarding weapons lightly. It would be a real education if you shared your thought process on this matter.

 :thumbsup:

I'm basing my choice on the real-world reputation of H&K. SFOD-Delta (Delta Force ) has been using the 416 for the past four years already, and have no complaints, though they are slated to be replaced by the FN Light and Heavy SCAR rifles soon. A gas-piston design, as opposed to the direct gas injection (DI) system of the original M16, it is claimed to be up to 3x more reliable than its forefather, though in real life the difference is not that great.

The FERFRANS PNP 11 and PNP 14 SOARs on the other hand, except for a few prototype models also with gas-piston systems, still use the the DI method of operation. It also does not have the real-world rep of the 416, since so far the only sizeable order that they have received was from the PNP-SAF, a few years back.

From the dozen or so FERFRANS SOARs I have fired or have observed fired, especially with their redesigned bolt carriers, all have proven to be utterly and boringly reliable, so no problem there.

Actually, what would clinch the deal for me is that HK manufactures all components in-house, meaning all of the parts of the weapon is manufactured by HK itself, bolt, barrel, butt. Contrast with FERFRANS, which is a entity that ASSEMBLES their weapons lang, using Stag Arms lower recievers, barreled uppers from another company, internal parts from yet another company, etc. A small matter perhaps, but parts replacement / resupply may be better IMHO if one company makes everything, though HKs international reputation sucks when it comes to customer service.

Please don't misunderstand. FERFRANS choses only quality parts for its weapons, and the resulting gun is, as I have seen, most functional!

Price? Government price for the HK 416 is 190,000 pesos each, the FERFRANS 180,000 apiece.

Would not mind using either for serious social purposes, though if pressured, will choose the 416.

My buddies in the Recon Marines prefer the standard M16. There aren't many M4 variants to go around to equip a whole squad or platoon.

According to one captain, insurgent snipers usually target the guy with the M4 FIRST as he is assumed to be the commanding officer.

The Marines also prefer to use  the standard iron sights. Putting on accessories like specialized sights or aiming devices just screams "SHOOT ME FIRST! SHOOT ME FIRST!"








Agree 100 percent with Mr.FR. While the use of optics and other doodads on combat rifles act as significant force multipliers, ideally the whole squad or platoon should be similarly equipped, otherwise the sole one with such a weapon becomes an unwilling bullet magnet. :(

Were I an opposing sniper, you bet I would shoot first the one with the coolest rifle! :lol:

Re-equipping the whole small unit with similar weaponry should be the norm, not replacement piece-by-piece. :goggles:

ForceRecon

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Re: U.S SOCOM requirement reliability test HK416 VS Colt M4/16 type
« Reply #5 on: May 20, 2008, 04:10:17 AM »
When walking openly in civilian areas in a  combat zone,  the officers also hide any hint of their rank  to prevent any possibility of treachery.


salbahis

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Re: U.S SOCOM requirement reliability test HK416 VS Colt M4/16 type
« Reply #6 on: May 20, 2008, 06:14:31 AM »
Agree 100 percent with Mr.FR. While the use of optics and other doodads on combat rifles act as significant force multipliers, ideally the whole squad or platoon should be similarly equipped, otherwise the sole one with such a weapon becomes an unwilling bullet magnet. :(

Were I an opposing sniper, you bet I would shoot first the one with the coolest rifle! :lol:

Re-equipping the whole small unit with similar weaponry should be the norm, not replacement piece-by-piece. :goggles:

i never knew till then that looks could really kill!!!
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ForceRecon

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Re: U.S SOCOM requirement reliability test HK416 VS Colt M4/16 type
« Reply #7 on: May 20, 2008, 08:02:06 AM »
Actually, it is my perception that the marines are more interested in stand-off weapons rather than a more compact rifle like the M4 and its variants. These could mean sniper rifles with night scopes, M203 type grenade launchers, and modern  mortars... not necesarilly in that order.


prairiefire

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Re: U.S SOCOM requirement reliability test HK416 VS Colt M4/16 type
« Reply #8 on: May 20, 2008, 08:19:45 AM »
i never knew till then that looks could really kill!!!

In this case it really can, Mr. S! :mrgreen:

Actually, it is my perception that the marines are more interested in stand-off weapons rather than a more compact rifle like the M4 and its variants. These could mean sniper rifles with night scopes, M203 type grenade launchers, and modern  mortars... not necesarilly in that order.



Even the U.S.M.C. has resisted the U.S. army push to re-equip all its infantry components with M-4A1 carbines, preferring that its grunts continue to use an upgraded M16A2 in the form of the M16A4, which is simply the m16A2 with a flattop upper receiver, ACOG scope and railed forend. M4s are issued lang to Force Recon Battalion, FAST units, Det 1 SOF and support troops.

Were I to decide what to upgrade first with the AFP's small arms, assuming the funds are there, would be to get QUALITY red-dot optics for every grunt in the force. The improvement in speed-of-target acquisition, accuracy and vastly improved nightfighting capability astounded even the U.S. army in the mid-1990s, so much so that ALL U.S. small arms now are supposed to have optics issued with it ( rifles, carbines, and machine-guns).

Many claim that they shoot better using iron sights than with optics, and at long range they may be right sometimes. But at the usual engagement ranges of 25 - 300 meters, red-dot sights reign supreme.

yanyan

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Re: U.S SOCOM requirement reliability test HK416 VS Colt M4/16 type
« Reply #9 on: May 21, 2008, 02:40:41 AM »
i never knew till then that looks could really kill!!!

haha i think it's actually the other way around.... looks could get you killed!

cebupistol

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Re: U.S SOCOM requirement reliability test HK416 VS Colt M4/16 type
« Reply #10 on: May 22, 2008, 07:49:23 PM »
If you are in Cebu, you should try to view our show in cable TV.  Dr. Prairiefire is one our hosts and you really would gain alot of knowledge.  Think of Discovery Channel "I am navy seal(in whisper voice)" host but better than that.



Thanks for the info Doc P.

Care to share your thoughts on why? From observation, you don't take stance regarding weapons lightly. It would be a real education if you shared your thought process on this matter.

 :thumbsup:

prairiefire

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Re: U.S SOCOM requirement reliability test HK416 VS Colt M4/16 type
« Reply #11 on: May 23, 2008, 02:30:56 AM »
Hey, thats supposed to be a SECRET!  :mrgreen:

G.A.R.

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Re: U.S SOCOM requirement reliability test HK416 VS Colt M4/16 type
« Reply #12 on: May 23, 2008, 04:08:03 AM »
Ana diay ka bai...

"This is a Springfield .30-06 rifle... fires one of the most powerful cartridge in the planet, not everyone in the country has access to one, but I as Prairiefire  being a reservist for the 1st Cebu ready Reserve Batallion can show it to you."  Pauses for the focus on how serious his face in when aiming the rifle...."But first I have to remove a spraycan from a faggots ass" hehehe
Alcohol only hurts me because it loves me.

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prairiefire

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Re: U.S SOCOM requirement reliability test HK416 VS Colt M4/16 type
« Reply #13 on: May 23, 2008, 04:25:24 AM »
Hey, i didn't remove that can from that #@*&%?! fag's ass, it was my friend who did it...  :lol:

seriously, the M1903 Springfield is a kick-ass weapon, literally... my shoulder still aches from firing one last week... :cry:
« Last Edit: May 23, 2008, 04:29:55 AM by prairiefire »

G.A.R.

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Re: U.S SOCOM requirement reliability test HK416 VS Colt M4/16 type
« Reply #14 on: May 23, 2008, 05:14:38 AM »
seriously, the M1903 Springfield is a kick-ass weapon, literally... my shoulder still aches from firing one last week... :cry:

Damn you, for  that comment hehehe!  Basta if I visit cebu, I'll bring the boxes of ammo and search for you guys in the hospitals.
Alcohol only hurts me because it loves me.

Blessed is he who in the name of charity and goodwill shepherds the weak through the valley of darkness, for he is truly his brothers keeper and the finder of lost children. And I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger those who attempt to poison and destroy my brothers...
Ezekiel: 25-17

And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts,
And I looked and behold: a pale horse.
And his name, that sat on him, was Death.
And Hell followed with him.

"If someone has a gun and is trying to kill you, it would be reasonable to shoot back with your own gun.” - Dalai Lama (Seattle Times, 05-15-2001). <--- knows his ****