Author Topic: BRP Dagupan City (LC-551) - Frank Besson class  (Read 32459 times)

Mayk

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Re: BRP Dagupan City (LC-551) - Frank Besson class
« Reply #90 on: December 22, 2011, 04:57:04 PM »
If a shipping company has an Affiliated Reserve Unit (PNARU) within it, then that company can actually become an extension of the AFP during a crisis. Ideally, such an arrangement ought to be rehearsed through exercises specifically for situations like this. A PNARU could, theoretically, do what firstknight suggested.

Some commercial shipping lines have their Philippine Coast Guard Auxiliary squadrons specifically for this purpose.

firstknight

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Re: BRP Dagupan City (LC-551) - Frank Besson class
« Reply #91 on: December 22, 2011, 06:51:07 PM »
IMHO LC 551 is the banner of the gov't..it represents that the gov't is helping...mga pinoy pa naman gusto lagi eh may nakikitang pigura lalo na sa ganyang pangyayari...masyado tayong visual kasi...yun ang dahilan kung  bakit kahit mabagal ang 551 eh ginamit pa rin natin ito...marami pa rin kasing pilipinong makitid ang utak.its not about the savings...not about the speed... it sends the message clearly the YOUR gov't is here to help you...

mr L, you are not getting my point... ikaw na mismo ang nagsabing mabagal ang 551... are you saying na di bale ng mahuli ang tulog basta masakay lang sa LC 551 coz its the banner of the gov't? seems our priorities are not right... the people there needs help at the fastest possible time... the private sector is lending a hand - a transport that is faster than 551 for free... whats wrong with that? whats wrong having the savings?

if despite of the help from the private sector, the govt ignore that help that for me sends a clear message that the govt doesn't care as long as they can project the image they want to project.

as per ANC news, LC-551 will arrive today in CDO (not yesterday as per my previous post)... Superferry 12 was in CDO as early as Dec 21.

which is better? a relief brought by the navy today or the one brought by the private sector 2 days earlier?

firstknight

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Re: BRP Dagupan City (LC-551) - Frank Besson class
« Reply #92 on: December 22, 2011, 06:56:30 PM »
And that is the savings that other people doesn't see, or cost that FIRSTKNIGHT might be neglecting.
The bridge to which officers particularly servants like us has been crossing are difficult and
hazardous ones, exposed to the exploits of politicos and ridicule of the private individuals especially
the frustrated ones. There are many frustrated Filipinos indeed. Mahirap talaga maglingkod sa bayan na
kulang sa pagkakaisa.      

when private sectors lend a hand, it's a sign of unity.... why forego that opportunity to work hand in hand with them? if you are complaining of this "The bridge to which officers particularly servants like us has been crossing are difficult and hazardous ones, exposed to the exploits of politicos and ridicule of the private individuals especially the frustrated ones" - then isn't this option a way of relieving officers from that hazard? lets the private sector do the transfer of the goods instead of duplicating the effort - at a faster speed & at a greater frequency?


firstknight

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Re: BRP Dagupan City (LC-551) - Frank Besson class
« Reply #93 on: December 22, 2011, 07:01:05 PM »
Ok, tell me what shipping lines are accepting libreng sakay ng sundalo,
or are you suggesting us to containerize our soldiers, kawawa naman, baka pagdating dun sila pa ang
i-rescue.

Baka namalikmata lang po kayo sa nababalitaan nyo sir?

there is nothing that can't be agreed upon with the private sectors in case national emergency.... even the airlines can spare unoccupied seat to our rescuers... hence i'm saying dapat matagal ng mayroon MOA/MOU ang gov't and private sectors for situation like this

firstknight

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Re: BRP Dagupan City (LC-551) - Frank Besson class
« Reply #94 on: December 22, 2011, 07:08:02 PM »
If a shipping company has an Affiliated Reserve Unit (PNARU) within it, then that company can actually become an extension of the AFP during a crisis. Ideally, such an arrangement ought to be rehearsed through exercises specifically for situations like this. A PNARU could, theoretically, do what firstknight suggested.

That's how the US Civil Reserve Air Fleet (CRAF) works. CRAF uses aircraft from the US airline industry for rare surge requirements that exceed existing airlift capabilities, that have shrunk since the end of the Cold War.


agree  :thumbsup:

In the Philippine setting, if a portion of the AFP's transport needs are deliberately rotated among the different commercial carriers, the basic paperwork (e.g., MOU, etc.) would have already been laid out long before any crisis. This would be one instance where the reserves are actually used the way they ought to be.

commercial carriers covered almost all major ports in the vismin area with a regular frequency & faster speed... using them would relieve our PN transport vessels from additional stress...
 
Reportedly, the Government Arsenal is building these sorts of arrangements with local manufacturers for ammo production. In a time of war, all ammo manufacturers would be nationalized and would be producing products for the AFP under the management of the Government Arsenal. The same should happen to all transportation companies . . . land, sea, and air.

PROACTIVE not reactive... :thumbsup: kudos to mblt6

aris_glock40

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Re: BRP Dagupan City (LC-551) - Frank Besson class
« Reply #95 on: December 22, 2011, 09:14:31 PM »
   With your Indulgence sir Fk, As I understand you maybe advocating for a stronger involvement of the private sector or am I right to say their utilization in disaster management in which I believe is already being done, though MOA or MOU may not be an issue anymore since there was this call of allegiance of the citizenry & the juridical entities be it the corporate & business entities in participating not only in disaster response, as I understand sir but also in nation building. we could notice that even the private water ulitilities is extending their mobile filtration equipment to guarantee a safe & drinking water on areas of concern noticibly when Calumpit, Bulacan was in a catasthropy then. same thing as the commercial transport sector specifically those mentioned local shipping lines that is part of the Coast Guard auxilliary, & private aircraft operators affiliated & Air force reserve that is ready to mobilize in times of emergencies.
   On the issue of the lack of available assets of the military in transporting those precious commodities intended to the victims there is no question on the credibility of the Armed Forces in delivering the task as it was their mandate to us, the people, that just for the heck of their meager assets & budget you cannot deny the troops to fulfill their task, to heck of savings, that the Military will just be a seating duck while watching the more improved commercial air & sea vessels mobilizing, & savings must not be a consideration on managing disaster & helping the victims because these will be one of the moment that the Government reaches out the people in need, "wag tipirin ang mamamayan" unless the military is waisting its fund to a senseless task, what is the use of paying our taxes if the Authorities will make their assets a lame duck just to save its fund, that is quit insulting, if that is the case better "privitized" our National defense if we make to believe that MVP or the tycoons has enough ability to fund a Modern Military, privately. my apology to the Mod's. the point here sir Fk is the Armed Forces as it always reitterated in the past, that even with their meager resources they still effectively perfoms their Duties. be it a lone C130 or an old vessel available will still be ultilized as it was  their mandate to our country be it at peacetime & such an emergencies. that you cannot deny that there is sufficient funds to procure Bottled water & food as per your apprehensions earlier so as to multiply the supplies by saving the intended cost of the fuel for the airlift & seacrafts, since the Armed forces are acting up as a "courier" indeed its service was a free delivery. on the cargoes & medicine considerations & providing foods & shelters, it shall be the responsibilities of the DSWD & the NGO's alike, sorry for my understanding.
One more thing when we tackled the need for a fast vessel, our Navy was in the process of aquiring a sealift vessel that can be utilized for Humanitarian relief, the MRV Thread, how is it that we have a funding for her but then again its limited speed in transporting goods in future calamities will might be again the rant. so that is were I butted in the JHSV for a fast SSV requirements, though I reitterated also that there is a competent Authorities shall be incharge on matters what is fitted in their requirement's .
  Again, its just my opinion sir, have a Great Holiday weekend!    :beer:
« Last Edit: December 22, 2011, 10:01:23 PM by aris_glock40 »

philippinestoday

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Re: BRP Dagupan City (LC-551) - Frank Besson class
« Reply #96 on: December 22, 2011, 11:23:19 PM »
Navy: Caskets, tons of relief goods to arrive in Oro
http://www.sunstar.com.ph/zamboanga/local-news/2011/12/22/navy-caskets-tons-relief-goods-arrive-oro-197100

Quote
Philippine Navy public affairs director, Lieutenant Colonel Omar Tonsay, said BRP-Dagupan City loaded with 437 caskets and some 2,000 tons of relief goods is arriving Friday morning in Cagayan de Oro City, where there is shortage of coffins.
Philippines Today - Philippine Defense News
http://philippinestoday.blogspot.com/
Twitter - @Philippines2day

firstknight

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Re: BRP Dagupan City (LC-551) - Frank Besson class
« Reply #97 on: December 22, 2011, 11:36:57 PM »
On the issue of the lack of available assets of the military in transporting those precious commodities intended to the victims there is no question on the credibility of the Armed Forces in delivering the task as it was their mandate to us, the people, that just for the heck of their meager assets & budget you cannot deny the troops to fulfill their task, to heck of savings, that the Military will just be a seating duck while watching the more improved commercial air & sea vessels mobilizing, & savings must not be a consideration on managing disaster & helping the victims because these will be one of the moment that the Government reaches out the people in need, "wag tipirin ang mamamayan"

its not wag tipirin... its about speed too... read the news, LC-551 departed MNL together with Superferry 12 on same day... SF12 arrived CDO 2 days ago... the LC-551 arrived just this morning...

which is better? for the relief goods to arrive late just so that PN can show that they care?

aris_glock40

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Re: BRP Dagupan City (LC-551) - Frank Besson class
« Reply #98 on: December 23, 2011, 12:48:49 AM »
which is better? for the relief goods to arrive late just so that PN can show that they care?-Fk

You said that again sir. again, to make it clear there is no stopping from the more faster or efficient mode of delivery of the relief Goods by the private sector 'cuz that is spirit of volunteerism & to say a Commitment, say private sector participations that cannot be exclusive task of the concerend Government agencies. Its a matter of "Team work" or a cooperations if its right to say by the "PPP". be it the fedex or the UPS guys extending their help, "so long as they wont drop down the boxes carelessly" oops, just kidding.

let me copy this video that I saw on the social networks. that show how these particular private sector indeed perform an excellent & selfless job that is not in their primary Items but then there is calling that they are trained to handled such a scenario, but pls,. prepare you meds for the heart & a little tissue as its a Heart wrecking scene.
Imagine these folks has no Idea of MOA or MOU or what so ever, only they did is a samaritan act & as part of their curriculum, compromising their work then.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DanrfZkUrRM

Alpha-Charlie

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Re: BRP Dagupan City (LC-551) - Frank Besson class
« Reply #99 on: December 23, 2011, 02:09:24 AM »
there is nothing that can't be agreed upon with the private sectors in case national emergency.... even the airlines can spare unoccupied seat to our rescuers... hence i'm saying dapat matagal ng mayroon MOA/MOU ang gov't and private sectors for situation like this

Now you're talking "PROACTIVENESS" and shifting your points in a different time context of what should have been done?
What a typical day of conversation with a fellow Filipino in a time of National Calamity. :lol:

read the news, LC-551 departed MNL together with Superferry 12 on same day... SF12 arrived CDO 2 days ago... the LC-551 arrived just this morning...
which is better? for the relief goods to arrive late just so that PN can show that they care?

Again, this statement summarizes what's your own perspective of things. I respect that.
This discussion is over for me. We will just go on in circles.:smoke: 







firstknight

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Re: BRP Dagupan City (LC-551) - Frank Besson class
« Reply #100 on: December 23, 2011, 02:34:05 AM »
this disaster isn't the last... if for some reasons we failed to consolidate the efforts today then its about time for the lead agency like NDRRMC to come up with MOU/MOA with private sectors on how their resources can be tap in the future.  the current offer of some commercial shipping lines to extend their services for free simply show that the "bayanihan" spirit is alive and that private sector is willing to work hand in hand with the government in situation like this... window of opportunity has been opened & the govt should look into it.

otherwise, ill be be talking of "PROACTIVENESS" again and i will again be shifting my points in a different time context of what should have been done" - when similar disaster strikes us in the future.

this insight from Mr A is also a good option for AFP not only for disaster relief operation but for some of their logistical requirement

Quote
If a shipping company has an Affiliated Reserve Unit (PNARU) within it, then that company can actually become an extension of the AFP during a crisis. Ideally, such an arrangement ought to be rehearsed through exercises specifically for situations like this. A PNARU could, theoretically, do what firstknight suggested.

That's how the US Civil Reserve Air Fleet (CRAF) works. CRAF uses aircraft from the US airline industry for rare surge requirements that exceed existing airlift capabilities, that have shrunk since the end of the Cold War.

In the Philippine setting, if a portion of the AFP's transport needs are deliberately rotated among the different commercial carriers, the basic paperwork (e.g., MOU, etc.) would have already been laid out long before any crisis. This would be one instance where the reserves are actually used the way they ought to be.

Reportedly, the Government Arsenal is building these sorts of arrangements with local manufacturers for ammo production. In a time of war, all ammo manufacturers would be nationalized and would be producing products for the AFP under the management of the Government Arsenal. The same should happen to all transportation companies . . . land, sea, and air.


lagim_29

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Re: BRP Dagupan City (LC-551) - Frank Besson class
« Reply #101 on: December 23, 2011, 04:21:30 AM »
so the bottom line of your posts is that the gov't should come up with the MOU/MOA with private sectors so that whenever calamities arise, we can use ships that are faster to deliver much needed help to the affected areas and not the use of LC551 to deliver relief , i think you should have started a different thread about this...mukha kasing minaliit mo yung tulong ng gobyerno mo pati na rin yung mga taong naksakay dito at ang kakayanan ng barko...next time please do post your posts in a proper thread or better yet start a new one so as not to confuse forum members...thats all merry christmas to all...
don't run, you'll only die tired
"all landings are just controlled crashes"
"law ENFORCER, not ABUSER"
"you broke your foot jumping? no, landing"
"the best engine in the world is the vagina. It can be started with one finger, it is self-lubricating, it takes any size piston and it changes its own oil every four weeks. It is only a pity that the management system is so F**cking temperamental"

Alpha-Charlie

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Re: BRP Dagupan City (LC-551) - Frank Besson class
« Reply #102 on: December 23, 2011, 07:41:03 AM »
so the bottom line of your posts is that the gov't should come up with the MOU/MOA with private sectors so that whenever calamities arise, we can use ships that are faster to deliver much needed help to the affected areas and not the use of LC551 to deliver relief , i think you should have started a different thread about this...mukha kasing minaliit mo yung tulong ng gobyerno mo pati na rin yung mga taong naksakay dito at ang kakayanan ng barko...next time please do post your posts in a proper thread or better yet start a new one so as not to confuse forum members...thats all merry christmas to all...

Relax Lagim_29. The point of Mr.FK is right, Navy H.Q should not have scheduled a single two-way voyage for the slow LC-551 to transport cargo and troops to CDO. Instead, Navy H.Q should've converted the diesel costs into cash, then buy needed commodities then ship the same into a private commercial ship for free.

Furthermore (kapalan na din natin mukha natin), those troops (close to 200 I guess) and equipments waiting to board the supposed LC-551 to go back in Manila (not entirely related to the calamity effort) should've asked again for a commercial shipping line for a ride back to Manila.
Yung tipid nga naman na maitatabi ang mahalaga. Tingin ko, if what Adroth mentioned about arrangements with the private sectors can be achieved, we can sell those F.Bessons na din, sayang lang kung nakatambay lang sa Cavite City eh.  :lol:

 :jeez: Ang Pinoy talaga walang kupas, may mapag-aralan lang kaunti, wala nang ibang nakikita kundi sariling karunungan. :jeez:

lagim_29

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Re: BRP Dagupan City (LC-551) - Frank Besson class
« Reply #103 on: December 23, 2011, 07:49:18 AM »
i'm relaxed sir :D just don't want reading things like that...this is my navy, your navy, OUR navy...
« Last Edit: December 23, 2011, 08:16:13 AM by lagim_29 »
don't run, you'll only die tired
"all landings are just controlled crashes"
"law ENFORCER, not ABUSER"
"you broke your foot jumping? no, landing"
"the best engine in the world is the vagina. It can be started with one finger, it is self-lubricating, it takes any size piston and it changes its own oil every four weeks. It is only a pity that the management system is so F**cking temperamental"

Alpha-Charlie

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Re: BRP Dagupan City (LC-551) - Frank Besson class
« Reply #104 on: December 23, 2011, 08:10:41 AM »
i'm relaxed sir :D just don't want reading things like that...this is my navy, your navy, OUR navy...

Well, the hardest thing to bear in this kind of forum, especially for us pinoys, is when someone confuses his opinion
to be of suggestion in nature when in fact its more of a ridicule to elevate his personal point of view.

The AFP cannot please everybody, but it will not stop at any point in serving
the country, no matter what the cost. That alone is enough for me. :smoke: