Author Topic: KAI T/A-50 Golden Eagle : Alternatives for the PAF  (Read 37192 times)

pearl21

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Re: KAI T/A-50 Golden Eagle : Alternatives for the PAF
« Reply #15 on: August 21, 2008, 11:57:24 PM »
Agreed, as can be seen in this discussion I previously posted http://forum.keypublishing.co.uk/archive/index.php?t-47493.html
Exports is important for the koreans as well so as a new supplier trying to break in and wanting to spread it's development investment they will be willing to make a good deal. For training purposes for example they could be invited to "invest" a simulation training center here and park a few of these planes here for their outsource training in Clark or Basa and use Crow Valley.

A look at the presentation below shows us the interesting A50 variant which can have several variations as per the PAF's needs. It's basically an F16 lite.

Article here

cannot connect to the link......


bustero

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Re: KAI T/A-50 Golden Eagle : Alternatives for the PAF
« Reply #17 on: August 28, 2008, 08:09:37 AM »
Looks like the FA50 is supposed to be fitted with an AESA Radar from early on, if true this would truly make it an outstanding F5 replacement.

DATE:28/08/08
SOURCE:Flight International
Further delays likely for Korea Aerospace F/A-50 fighter
By Siva Govindasamy

Further delays are likely in the development of the Korea Aerospace Industries F/A-50 fighter, with the company unable to get its preferred radar and the South Korean government balking at the projected cost of the programme.

The design and production details of the aircraft - a combat version of KAI's T-50 advanced jet trainer - are almost complete and the company has lined up most of its suppliers. However, sources in South Korea say there are two impediments that could delay the start of the aircraft's development stage by more than a year to 2009.

KAI T-50
 © KAI

KAI and the South Korean air force want an active electronically scanned array radar on the F/A-50, but the USA has not allowed the technology to be exported despite several rounds of talks. Seoul must now decide between waiting for its preference and keeping the programme in limbo, or going ahead with a mechanically scanned array (MESA) and then fitting an AESA sensor on to later versions of the aircraft if Washington agrees.

"As far as the design and production are concerned, it is not a major issue. But this relates to the aircraft's capability and goes right to the heart of why the government should accept KAI's proposal for an F/A-50," says a source in Seoul. "It makes little sense to have some aircraft with MESA and others with AESA, even if the earlier aircraft can be upgraded in the future."

KAI had expected the go-ahead for the programme this year, paving the way for government funding. It has also been trying to lure Lockheed Martin, which helped to develop the T-50, given that it has no experience in developing fighters with advanced air-to-air and air-to-surface capabilities.

Lockheed's involvement, however, would increase the projected cost of the programme, causing the South Korean government to worry about the amount of funding it would need to provide, say sources. The parties involved are trying to find ways to reduce the cost, and convince the government that the price would be worth it.

"Some in South Korea feel that Lockheed is asking for too much money for its involvement. But KAI is keen to work with them, and their involvement may be crucial to the programme," says a Seoul-based source. "The Americans were instrumental in helping to develop the T-50 and making it a success. Discussions are ongoing, but the F/A-50 will cost less than its alternatives as it is based on the T-50 platform and that is likely to factor into the government's considerations."

KAI has been pushing for the development of the F/A-50 as a possible replacement for South Korea's Northrop F-5s, and hopes to secure an initial order for 60 aircraft, safeguarding its T-50 production line beyond 2012. Seoul has already committed to buying 60 T-50s and 22 armed A-50s.
http://www.flightglobal.com/articles/2008/08/28/315222/further-delays-likely-for-korea-aerospace-fa-50-fighter.html

el_commandante

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Re: KAI T/A-50 Golden Eagle : Alternatives for the PAF
« Reply #18 on: August 28, 2008, 11:01:30 AM »
I find it hard to believe that a high tech country like South Korea could not develop its own radar.
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Adroth

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Re: KAI T/A-50 Golden Eagle : Alternatives for the PAF
« Reply #19 on: August 28, 2008, 02:05:51 PM »
I find it hard to believe that a high tech country like South Korea could not develop its own radar.

Radar development isn't a trivial matter. There are very few countries in the world with sufficiently developed defense industries that can create these items.

Here's also a Singaporean Link discussing this aircraft for the upcoming bid. Very good as lots of posts with articles on it.
http://sgforums.com/forums/1164/topics/285958

Hmmm
The campaign to establish a Philippine equivalent to DARPA / DAPA / DSTA: http://adroth.ph/srdp_roadmap_darpa/

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Tora^2

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Re: KAI T/A-50 Golden Eagle : Alternatives for the PAF
« Reply #20 on: August 28, 2008, 11:34:11 PM »
What other possible options do they have to give the FA50 the same capabilites as AESA?

I can see PAF eyeing the FA50 for their Horizon III procurement plans.

Hopefully, the CUP won't be derailed by the raging insurgency yet again nor would the FA50 end up in development hell for the lack of a decent RADAR
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bustero

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Re: KAI T/A-50 Golden Eagle : Alternatives for the PAF
« Reply #21 on: August 29, 2008, 07:40:00 PM »
Hmmm

?????? ideas  :D

Toratora
These planes are inexpensive and smaller and are better suited for Horizon 2. They're specifically designed for training to step up to higher generation more powerful aircraft while still providing first level capability in terms of defense and CAS.

I think in the long run , as can be seen in the Korean Aerospace Industry website the next step up is to develop it from the F/A50 into the F50 which is supposed to be more capable. Perhaps trying to get more  power from the engine as well as better electronics as this is still at least 5 years away.

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Re: KAI T/A-50 Golden Eagle : Alternatives for the PAF
« Reply #22 on: September 03, 2008, 11:54:26 AM »
Actually, I was referring to the improved single-seat fighter variant of the T/A50 not the trainer and the also-in-development attack variant.

Bustero it would be like mixing up the F5 with the T38. One is a 2-seat unarmed dedicated hi-performance trainer while the other is a single-seat hi-performance fully-armed lightweight fighter
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bustero

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Re: KAI T/A-50 Golden Eagle : Alternatives for the PAF
« Reply #23 on: September 20, 2008, 04:59:31 AM »


http://www.idrw.org/2008/08/28/further_delays_likely_for_korea_aerospace_fa50_fighter.html

Further delays are likely in the development of the Korea Aerospace Industries F/A-50 fighter, with the company unable to get its preferred radar and the South Korean government balking at the projected cost of the programme.

The design and production details of the aircraft - a combat version of KAI's T-50 advanced jet trainer - are almost complete and the company has lined up most of its suppliers. However, sources in South Korea say there are two impediments that could delay the start of the aircraft's development stage by more than a year to 2009.

KAI and the South Korean air force want an active electronically scanned array radar on the F/A-50, but the USA has not allowed the technology to be exported despite several rounds of talks. Seoul must now decide between waiting for its preference and keeping the programme in limbo, or going ahead with a mechanically scanned array (MESA) and then fitting an AESA sensor on to later versions of the aircraft if Washington agrees.

"As far as the design and production are concerned, it is not a major issue. But this relates to the aircraft's capability and goes right to the heart of why the government should accept KAI's proposal for an F/A-50," says a source in Seoul. "It makes little sense to have some aircraft with MESA and others with AESA, even if the earlier aircraft can be upgraded in the future."

KAI had expected the go-ahead for the programme this year, paving the way for government funding. It has also been trying to lure Lockheed Martin, which helped to develop the T-50, given that it has no experience in developing fighters with advanced air-to-air and air-to-surface capabilities.

Lockheed's involvement, however, would increase the projected cost of the programme, causing the South Korean government to worry about the amount of funding it would need to provide, say sources. The parties involved are trying to find ways to reduce the cost, and convince the government that the price would be worth it.

"Some in South Korea feel that Lockheed is asking for too much money for its involvement. But KAI is keen to work with them, and their involvement may be crucial to the programme," says a Seoul-based source. "The Americans were instrumental in helping to develop the T-50 and making it a success. Discussions are ongoing, but the F/A-50 will cost less than its alternatives as it is based on the T-50 platform and that is likely to factor into the government's considerations."

KAI has been pushing for the development of the F/A-50 as a possible replacement for South Korea's Northrop F-5s, and hopes to secure an initial order for 60 aircraft, safeguarding its T-50 production line beyond 2012. Seoul has already committed to buying 60 T-50s and 22 armed A-50s.

http://www.aviationanswers.com/content/view/6892229/29/

bustero

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Re: KAI T/A-50 Golden Eagle : Alternatives for the PAF
« Reply #24 on: October 30, 2008, 06:35:39 PM »

Korean Aerospace Industries T-50 Golden Eagle


T-50 first prototype 001 at the formal rollout.

Main Role:    Advanced Trainer/Light Attack
Country of Origin:    South Korea    Current Status:    In Development

Although increasingly well known for it's ships, cars and consumer electronics goods, South Korea also possesses a thriving aerospace industry. An industry which cut its teeth on component manufacture and licenced production has now produced its second Korean-designed aircraft, the T-50 Golden Eagle. That this aircraft should be a supersonic combat aircraft demonstrates the breadth of South Korea's capability and the extent of its ambition.
Korean Air Lines (KAL) was the first company in South Korea to be involved in aerospace, establishing facilities in 1979 to carry out depot level maintenance of USAF aircraft based in South Korea and the Pacific. Daewoo, Hyundai and Samsung established similar capabilities soon afterwards. In 1981, KAL was contracted to assemble the Northrop F-5E Tiger IIs ordered by the Republic of Korea Air Force (RoKAF). Korean industry subsequently won contracts to produce a wide range of components and sub-assemblies for Airbus, Boeing, Bombardier and Lockheed Martin - amongst others - and won praise for the high quality of workmanship evident in the delivered items. In 1988, development of South Korea's first locally-designed aircraft, the Daewoo KT-1 Woong-Bee was initiated. This PC-9 look-alike turboprop trainer first flew in 1991 and entered service with the RoKAF in 2000. In the meantime, Samsung was awarded prime contractor status in the Korean Fighter Programme, under which 108 F-16s were licenced-built for the RoKAF. The contract specified extensive technology transfer to Korean industry, resulting in the last 72 aircraft being wholly built in South Korea.
In 1992, initial design studies were launched by South Korea's Defence Development Agency and Samsung into the development of an indigenous jet trainer/light attack aircraft to replace the T-38, Hawk and F-5 in RoKAF service. The designation KTX-2 (Korean Trainer, Experimental 2) was assigned to the project. Substantial input into the design was made by General Dynamics (later taken over by Lockheed Martin) under the offset agreement negotiated for the F-16 contract.
In mid 1995 the basic external layout was agreed, but the project stalled at the end of the year as the gathering Asian Financial Crisis mean that available government funding could not now cover the remainder of the project - a foreign partner was essential to carry on. Several major aerospace companies showed interest, but none proved willing to invest their own money. Eventually, Lockheed Martin took the decision to upgrade its existing involvement from that of design consultant to full partner. On 3 July 1997, the South Korean government approved continuation of the project. Later in July, Lockheed Martin signed a formal agreement with Samsung under which it took responsibility for the Fly-By-Wire flight control system, avionics integration, wing design and supply of the APG-167 radar.
In October 1997, the contract to build and test six prototypes was received - including two static test airframes. Detailed design was now able to proceed rapidly and in August 1999 the external shape of the KTX-2 was frozen, allowing manufacturing drawings to start being released.
As part of the country's economic reforms, Korean Aerospace Industries Ltd (KAI) was formed in October 1999 from the amalgamation of the aerospace divisions of Samsung, Daewoo and Hyundai. The other major South Korean aerospace manufacturer, Korean Air Lines remained outside of the main industry grouping.
In February 2000 it was announced that the KTX-2 had been renamed the T-50/A-50 Golden Eagle. The T-50 Golden Eagle designation being applied to an Advanced Jet Training variant, and A-50 Golden Eagle to an armed Light Attack/Fighter Lead In Trainer variant. Final assembly of the first T-50 prototype began on 15 January 2001, and it was formally rolled out on 31 October 2001. The maiden flight was achieved on 20 August 2002, with flight testing continuing until mid 2005.
The Golden Eagle bears a close resemblance to the F-16 - not really surprising when you consider its origins and the intended role of training RoKAF pilots to fly the F-16 - although it is actually about 80% the size of an F-16. Several design features are shared with its bigger brother, the most noticeable of which is the blended mid-set wing, complete with leading edge root extensions (LERX) and rear 'shelf' fairings ending in F-16-style split airbrakes. Sweepback is only applied to the wing leading edge, and missile launch rails are located at the wing tips. In a departure from F-16 influence, the engine air intakes are located at the fuselage sides, just below the wing LERX in a similar manner to those on the F/A-18.
The two crew sit in a tandem stepped cockpit equipped with two large Multi-Function Displays (MFDs), a modern wide-angle Head-Up Display (HUD) and full hands on throttle and stick (HOTAS) controls. The Lead In Fighter Trainer and Attack variants will be equipped with a Lockheed Martin APG-167 radar in the nose and a M61 20 mm cannon in the port wing root. The incorporation of many of the latest-technology but 'off the shelf' components and systems within the design is intended to deliver a capable but efficient, reliable and easy to maintain aircraft.
The Golden Eagle already has a production order for 50 T-50 trainers and 44 A-50 Fighter Lead In trainers from the RoKAF. Further domestic orders may follow, to allow replacement of the F-5 and F-4 in RoKAF service. The type also has obvious export potential - particularly among the ever growing number of F-16 operators. It's manoeuvrability and advanced systems are designed to prepare future pilots to fly the next generation fighters such as the Eurofighter Typhoon, Dassault Rafale and Lockheed Martin F-35, while its combat capability allows dual-role adaptability. Potential rivals, such as the EADS Mako and Aermacchi M-346 have yet to secure any orders, while the class-leading but slow-selling BAE SYSTEMS Hawk may have reached the limit of its development potential. With the marketing clout of Lockheed Martin behind it, the future of the Golden Eagle is sure to be bright.

http://www.aeroflight.co.uk/types/korea/kai/t-50/T-50.htm


https://www.koreaaero.com/

Adroth

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Re: KAI T/A-50 Golden Eagle : Alternatives for the PAF
« Reply #25 on: December 09, 2008, 01:03:11 AM »
Videos

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S67p2-oixZQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sRShQQU4I8g

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KEK9YV-n0ww

=== ~~~ ===

Not-so-new-article

U.S. pilots test S. Korean aircraft
By Erik Slavin, Stars and Stripes
Pacific edition, Monday, November 17, 2008

http://www.stripes.com/article.asp?section=104&article=58846

Pilots from the U.S. Naval Test Pilot School flew one of the world’s most advanced training aircraft in South Korea last week.

The TA-50 Golden Eagle, developed jointly by Korea Aerospace Industries and Lockheed Martin, is designed to prepare pilots for today’s advanced fighter aircraft, as well as for prototypes like the Joint Strike Fighter.

Like the F-16 that the Navy uses as an advanced trainer and the Air Force uses in combat, the high-performance supersonic TA-50 has a single tail rudder and a similarly shaped bubble canopy.

"This would be an ideal trainer to bridge the gap between the propeller-driven primary trainer that student pilots normally fly … to the advanced fighter they’ll eventually fly," said Maj. Jonathan Ohman, a Marine student at the Navy’s test pilot school, who flew the South Korean air force aircraft Wednesday in Sancheon, near Busan.

Ohman and Navy Lt. Joshua Filbey are both writing technical reports on the aircraft as the final step in their graduation from the school.

The students are graded on the TA-50 technical reports, not the flying, said school instructor Lt. Cmdr. Jim Mires.

While Mires said the training aircraft was comfortable and easy to start up, the nature of a technical report — which isn’t published — is to nitpick.

"Unless it’s perfect, every aircraft has its objectionable qualities on it, but that’s all based on personal opinions," Mires said.

The TA-50 is one of three versions of the aircraft. It adds air-to-air and air-to-ground weapons installation capabilities along with other features to the T-50 base model.

"It’s a unique aircraft to fly," Filbey said. "The avionics, performance and handling are a great step to a modern fighter."

A South Korean Air Force spokesman said Thursday that the service agreed to allow the U.S. pilots to test fly the TA-50 as a way to showcase the technology South Korea hopes to market.

If the U.S. pilots recognize the capabilities of the aircraft, the spokesman said, there are better "prospects for selling our aircraft."
« Last Edit: December 09, 2008, 01:13:15 AM by Adroth »
The campaign to establish a Philippine equivalent to DARPA / DAPA / DSTA: http://adroth.ph/srdp_roadmap_darpa/

Don't get mad at China. GET EVEN. Join the movement to defy a Chinese "order".


pearl21

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Re: KAI T/A-50 Golden Eagle : Alternatives for the PAF
« Reply #26 on: January 03, 2009, 07:30:58 PM »
S. Korea to Develop Trainer Into Light Fighter
By JUNG SUNG-KI
Published: 2 Jan 13:05 EST (18:05 GMT) 

SEOUL - South Korea's arms procurement agency has signed a contract with a local aircraft manufacturer to develop an indigenous trainer into a light attack jet by 2012, agency officials said Dec. 31.

The Defense Acquisition Program Administration (DAPA) signed the deal with Korea Aerospace Industries (KAI) on Dec. 26 to upgrade and modify the aircraft maker's T-50 Golden Eagle supersonic trainer jet into a light combat aircraft that will replace the South Korean Air Force's aging, lower-class fighters, they said.

Under the deal, valued at about 400 billion won ($305 million), KAI will develop four prototypes of the T-50 trainer into advanced light attack jets by 2012; the new jet will be designated the FA-50. A separate deal on production will be sealed after that, according to DAPA and KAI officials.

Developed in 2006, the $21 million Mach 1.4 T-50 is South Korea's first indigenous supersonic aircraft and the world's only high-performance supersonic trainer in production. KAI is the prime contractor and Lockheed Martin is the principal subcontractor, assisting with development and international marketing.

With the modifications, the FA-50 will have advanced tactical data link systems and precision missile guidance equipment, the officials said.

For example, the jet will be outfitted with the Wind Corrected Munitions Dispenser (WCMD) kit, incorporating an internal navigation system and flip-out control fins to guide bombs. The WCMD corrects launch errors, determines atmospheric conditions and computes optimum flight paths and cluster bomb release points.

Armaments will include AGM-65 Maverick air-to-surface missiles and Joint Direct Attack Munition bombs.

A DAPA source said the agency initially wants to buy about 60 FA-50s to start service in 2013, the same year mass production for export will likely begin.

The Air Force wants to introduce up to 150 FA-50s to replace the A-37 attack aircraft and F-4/F-5 fighters currently serving as a low-tier backup to its higher-class KF-16 and F-15K fighters, the source said.

According to DAPA officials, the FA-50 will be equipped with the EL/M-2032 radar from Israel's Elta Systems, which is credited with a look-up tracking range of 65 to 100 kilometers.

The FA-50 program had been stalled for years over the selection of a radar system. DAPA originally wanted to equip the plane with the lightweight Vixen-500E active electronically scanned array (AESA) radar, developed by U.K. firm Selex Sensors and Airborne Systems, and to launch the project last August. But co-developer Lockheed Martin opposed the move, citing protection of its technology, DAPA Commissioner Yang Chi-kyu told a National Assembly session Sept. 25.

"In general, aircraft source code cannot be transferred to other nations," Yang said. "To install the U.K. equipment on the FA-50, the aircraft's source code would have had to be shared with the company concerned, which was impossible."

Sources said Lockheed had been pushing Seoul to select its AN/APG-67(V)4 radar. Lockheed and the U.S. government also rejected the possible selection of the AESA radar, as the T-50 development contract stipulates that the T-50's capabilities should be no better than those of the KF-16 fighter. But the Vixen-500E is believed to be better than the KF-16's AN/APG-68 pulse-Doppler radar, they said.

The contract also bans South Korea from integrating T-50 variants with non-U.S. technology that the U.S. doesn't have, and U.S. officials discouraged the idea of putting European equipment into the aircraft for export, they said.

Lockheed agreed on the installation of the Israeli radar because the system is to be integrated by ITT Defense of the U.S.

bustero

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Re: KAI T/A-50 Golden Eagle : Alternatives for the PAF
« Reply #27 on: January 04, 2009, 07:19:44 AM »
A step in the right direction but the additional information is interesting basically shows the limits of this aircraft platform.


bustero

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Re: KAI T/A-50 Golden Eagle : Alternatives for the PAF
« Reply #29 on: January 06, 2009, 05:49:47 AM »
In a sense it's too bad that the source code for this is still american, it would have been good to have alternatives. It's not even a question of security but commerce which blocks this!