Author Topic: JAS 39 Gripen for PAF  (Read 8175 times)

bluehornet2

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JAS 39 Gripen for PAF
« Reply #15 on: July 29, 2004, 12:57:15 AM »
GRIPEN ( Fourth generation fighter on offer)
      BY LT.COL  AGIL MUSA


THE DOGFIGHT to win the multi-role fighter order for the Philippine Air
force is hotting up but the Gripen JAS39 that won the South African order is the only fourth-generation fighter on offer. Other fighters that have been offered are the Mirage2000-5 from Dassault Aviation International of France, the Kfir 2000 from International Aircraft Corporation, Israel,the F-16 Fighting Falcon from Lockheed Martin,United States, the FA-18 from Boeing, United States,and the MIG-29 from MIG "MAPO",Russia. The Gripen built by Saab is a fighter that can match Lockheed Martin's F-16 Fighting Falcon in respect of size and operationalrequirements, but in another aspect it is far superior.Saab claims its hgh alpha test program "covers situations outside the allowed flight envelope, like when the pilot flies up at 90 degrees and lets the aircraft fall back in a hammer-slide maneuver. Our aim in tests far outside the flight envelope was to maximize flight safety and optimize pilot training. Some of our competitors in the 4th-generation say you do not have to look at out-of  the envelope flight because you never fly out of the envelope. We know better!" say  Saab Jan  Alhlgren, Vice  President Communication and Public
affairs.

bluehornet2

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JAS 39 Gripen for PAF
« Reply #16 on: July 29, 2004, 01:27:05 AM »
GRIPEN ( Fourth generation fighter on offer)
      BY LT.COL  AGIL MUSA


THE DOGFIGHT to win the multi-role fighter order for the Philippine Air
force is hotting up but the Gripen JAS39 that won the South African order is the only fourth-generation fighter on offer. Other fighters that have been offered are the Mirage2000-5 from Dassault Aviation International of France, the Kfir 2000 from International Aircraft Corporation, Israel,the F-16 Fighting Falcon from Lockheed Martin,United States, the FA-18 from Boeing, United States,and the MIG-29 from MIG "MAPO",Russia. The Gripen built by Saab is a fighter that can match Lockheed Martin's F-16 Fighting Falcon in respect of size and operationalrequirements, but in another aspect it is far superior.Saab claims its hgh alpha test program "covers situations outside the allowed flight envelope, like when the pilot flies up at 90 degrees and lets the aircraft fall back in a hammer-slide maneuver. Our aim in tests far outside the flight envelope was to maximize flight safety and optimize pilot training. Some of our competitors in the 4th-generation say you do not have to look at out-of  the envelope flight because you never fly out of the envelope. We know better!" say  Saab Jan  Alhlgren, Vice  President Communication and Public
affairs.

CityHunter

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JAS 39 Gripen for PAF
« Reply #17 on: July 29, 2004, 01:32:28 AM »
Hmmm.  Medyo outdated na ako on aircraft info but indeed heard that Russian spare parts are a bit hard to order as tag hirap nga sa kanila.  Sukhoi faring better over MiGs as better publicity.  

Pero if it was up to me to decide things mas ok kung kasama yun paglipat ng technology in building these or we buy the full manufacturing rights plus tech on it.  That way our AFP could design the aircraft to suit our local needs talaga.  Most aircrafts kasi are multi-role pero not really outstanding on those roles.  That's why (if I understand it correctly) the Israeli's package their aircrafts to specific roles pati on some US machines like the F/A 18s.  Vote ko we pick to buy the tech in building the unpicked F20 Tigershark.  F16 performance at familiarized na mga pilots natin as its an upgraded F5.
Long life through superior firepower!

wasp

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JAS 39 Gripen for PAF
« Reply #18 on: July 29, 2004, 02:25:44 AM »
Quote from: aldon
Quote from: Vermonter

The Ruskies even sent one to Manila to show it off.


I remember that.  It was on an airshow at Villamor.  The PAF CG at that time even flew the plane.  The plane was displayed along side our F-5.   *sigh*  You can see the difference.  

Also on display were the Defenders, Hueys and, on the PA section, a V150.



YES.  That was during the 2nd Aviation Maritime & Defense  
MAPO of Russia brought 2 double seater MIG 29 at that time.

israeli

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JAS 39 Gripen for PAF
« Reply #19 on: July 29, 2004, 02:57:01 AM »
did the Mexican purchase of Swiss F-5Es has the approval of the Americans???  :shock:

if ever they did, that's too much double standard... the Americans opposed all PAF plans to purchase Swiss F-5E/Fs but when the Brazilians and the Mexicans purchased those same aircrafts, they did not even lift a finger...  :evil:
"I'm very determined. If I decide what something is worth doing, then I'll put my heart and soul to it. The whole ground can be against me, but if I know it is right, I'll do it. That's the business of a leader." - Lee Kuan Yew

bluehornet2

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JAS 39 Gripen for PAF
« Reply #20 on: July 29, 2004, 03:10:57 AM »
Quote from: wasp
Quote from: aldon
Quote from: Vermonter

The Ruskies even sent one to Manila to show it off.


I remember that.  It was on an airshow at Villamor.  The PAF CG at that time even flew the plane.  The plane was displayed along side our F-5.   *sigh*  You can see the difference.  

Also on display were the Defenders, Hueys and, on the PA section, a V150.



YES.  That was during the 2nd Aviation Maritime & Defense  
MAPO of Russia brought 2 double seater MIG 29 at that time.


Where on that occassion GKN introduced the simba vehicle to the AFP for production at I think Clark or Subic economic  zone. They also introduce
Piranha and Saxon vehicles.

wasp

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JAS 39 Gripen for PAF
« Reply #21 on: July 29, 2004, 03:26:42 AM »
Quote from: israeli
did the Mexican purchase of Swiss F-5Es has the approval of the Americans???  :shock:

if ever they did, that's too much double standard... the Americans opposed all PAF plans to purchase Swiss F-5E/Fs but when the Brazilians and the Mexicans purchased those same aircrafts, they did not even lift a finger...  :evil:


Yes they dont want us to purchase the F5s because of the possible F16A/B deal for the PAF. It  did not materialize because PAF official dont want the A/B version which lacks modern avionics.

israeli

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JAS 39 Gripen for PAF
« Reply #22 on: July 29, 2004, 03:35:27 AM »
but as far as i can remember (please correct me if i'm wrong), what the Americans pushed for sale to the PAF were those 28 F-16A/B Block 15OCUs that were embargoed from Pakistan. those planes were "almost new and not much used" during those times. that was also the time when the Philippines has all the money to purchase modern MRFs and other modern equipment for all branches of the military.

those F-16A/B Block 15OCUs could have been upgraded into the same standard as Taiwanese F-16A/B Block 20s (which are actually Block 15OCUs in MLU configurations)... doing so will give the PAF decent multi-role fighter aircraft platforms.  :roll:
"I'm very determined. If I decide what something is worth doing, then I'll put my heart and soul to it. The whole ground can be against me, but if I know it is right, I'll do it. That's the business of a leader." - Lee Kuan Yew

bluehornet2

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JAS 39 Gripen for PAF
« Reply #23 on: July 29, 2004, 05:24:56 AM »



What more..........

bluehornet2

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JAS 39 Gripen for PAF
« Reply #24 on: July 29, 2004, 05:38:58 AM »
Quote from: bluehornet2



What more..........




Ang Ganda Ganda  nya......

bluehornet2

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JAS 39 Gripen for PAF
« Reply #25 on: July 29, 2004, 05:50:06 AM »
e2 pa pwedeng lumapag sa  C5




Kaya nyo toits....

datu

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« Reply #26 on: July 30, 2004, 04:13:24 PM »
israeli said:
Quote
but as far as i can remember (please correct me if i'm wrong), what the Americans pushed for sale to the PAF were those 28 F-16A/B Block 15OCUs that were embargoed from Pakistan. those planes were "almost new and not much used" during those times. that was also the time when the Philippines has all the money to purchase modern MRFs and other modern equipment for all branches of the military.

those F-16A/B Block 15OCUs could have been upgraded into the same standard as Taiwanese F-16A/B Block 20s (which are actually Block 15OCUs in MLU configurations)... doing so will give the PAF decent multi-role fighter aircraft platforms.


the PAF, philippine government even, didnt pick up on the embargoed pakistani fighters because for some reason people thought they were old. and since the government was going to spend big money anyways, might as well buy the latest. but when they realized they didnt have any money, the US had found a more willing buyer in the kiwis. this is the part that u might be talking about, the PAF knowing the train left the station, decided to go for swiss F-5e/fs instead, but the kiwis needed to sell their A-4s to make some funds to purchase the F-16, so the US probably figured the PAF can have the A-4s. the US went as far as buying or giving a majority of the funds the philippines was going to need to buy the kiwi A-4 fleet. but a change of government took that away. it wasnt just the philippines nor the new kiwi government that turned down the embargoed pakistani F-16s, indonesia rejected them because they criticized Pres. Clinton's hipocrisy, in which the US agressively marketed the F-16s but condemnming the indonesian government for its human rights violations. the PAF also had the chance to buy the kuwaiti A-4s (that brazil bought), these were in very good condition, in which the kuwaitis sold their whole spares, weapons, extra engines all the material they had with the A-4s. again the government thought they were obsolete aircraft.

Quote
did the Mexican purchase of Swiss F-5Es has the approval of the Americans???  

if ever they did, that's too much double standard... the Americans opposed all PAF plans to purchase Swiss F-5E/Fs but when the Brazilians and the Mexicans purchased those same aircrafts, they did not even lift a finger...


the US does not blackball ALL PAF attempts to get swiss F-5s, since when , did they request approval any sale at any other time, except those in question?its probably not the same case now, if the PAF requests sale of F-5E/F from swiss or even teh south koreans. but now, its different because theres just no money and priorities in internal conflicts changed the whole situation.
"Only a man who knows what it is like to be defeated, can reach down to the bottom of his soul and come up with the extra ounce of power it takes to win when the match is even."

--- Muhammad Ali

Guest

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JAS 39 Gripen for PAF
« Reply #27 on: July 31, 2004, 07:17:49 PM »
God!  Just privatize the PAF!  We may even get something if this happened!  Our government is just a complete failure... :evil:

simoai-guest

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JAS 39 Gripen for PAF
« Reply #28 on: August 01, 2004, 05:46:38 AM »
source: http://www.clw.org/atop/newswire/nw012802.html


Sao Paulo Gazeta Mercantil - January 24, 2002

Brazil To Purchase F-5E Fighter Jets From Switzerland

In November 1952, Brazil traded cotton for combat aircraft: Brazil handed over 15 thousand tons of cotton and received 60 Gloster Meteor F-8 and T-7 planes from England in return, in a transaction that was worth four million pounds sterling at the time.

Fifty years later, Brazil is going to buy from Switzerland 15 F-5E fighter planes built by the United States in the seventies. The situation is different and the transaction is rather more modest, but it is possible that the payment method may be similar.

Three members of the Brazilian military will be in Switzerland during the first half of February to define a 'memorandum of understanding' on the price and the conditions of the purchase. As it is a negotiation between governments, the transaction could include aircraft in exchange for products.

In any case, what has been confirmed is that the Brazilian Air Force (FAB) continues bargaining when it is buying outside the assembly line. "The FAB always negotiates compensation in all its acquisitions," confirms Brigadier General Marcos Antonio de Oliveira, the military attaché in Geneva.

In order to purchase the Swiss airplanes, Brasilia will receive a technology transfer that could be in another area and not necessarily in the aeronautics sector. The practice in negotiating compensation will be important for the future high-priced acquisition of 12 supersonic fighter planes, which will cost around $700 million. The open international bidding for the Brazilian contract attracted manufacturers from the US, France, Sweden, and Russia.

At the moment, the FAB can be content with more Tigers in its fleet. It already has 48 Tigers, which continue to have a good reputation in military circles. The Swiss planes were acquired in the seventies, but they have a reputation for being very reliable and durable, as the Brazilian military proved last year.

The 15 that Brazil is going to acquire are one-seaters, but they will be modified for two seats in Switzerland. The planes will be designated as trainers. Brazil declined the rest of the package offered by the Swiss, such as missiles to arm the planes and ammunition for the planes' cannons.

Switzerland decided two years ago to sell off its 110 Tigers and renovate its fleet with F-18s. But the first deal, with the Philippine Armed Forces, was blocked by the US government in accordance with the contract it held with Switzerland. Internal tensions in the Philippines help to explain the blocking of the deal, although the fight against terrorism may have changed certain sentiments recently. Presently the Philippine military is engaged along with the US in the fight against the armed Islamic militants of Abu Sayyaf.
The deal with Brazil did not raise any objections from the Americans or from Swiss diplomats. The export of any armament, in the possession of a country or a private group, is subjected to a law on the matter in Switzerland. It does not matter how payment is made.

Anonymous

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JAS 39 Gripen for PAF
« Reply #29 on: August 01, 2004, 07:03:27 AM »
Wala na!  By the time the U.S. approves the sale of any foreign-owned F-5Es to the PAF, ubos na yung supply.  I guess Huey and C-130s na lang ang mabibigay ulit sa atin.  Damn!  Just go buy from Russia para tumahimik na yung U.S.  We don't need to rely on the U.S. for everything!