Author Topic: SUITABLE MAIN BATTLE TANK FOR PHILIPPINE TERRAIN  (Read 31302 times)

jerk

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Re: SUITABLE MAIN BATTLE TANK FOR PHILIPPINE TERRAIN
« Reply #15 on: September 13, 2010, 06:00:18 PM »
No MBTs for the Philippines.

MBTs are essentially offensive weapons, and the Philippines is not geared towards offense (except of course attack platforms necessary for defense [choppers, planes, ship] and we are not planning to invade any country right?)

Might just go for the tank-killers instead.. light, fast, and versatile.. and buy lots of carry or mounted anti-tank weapons.

  Think, 1 MBT for x amount of ATGMs then
            1 ATGM equivalent to 1 MBT

             = cost effective spending. Right?
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darthnbs

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Re: SUITABLE MAIN BATTLE TANK FOR PHILIPPINE TERRAIN
« Reply #16 on: September 13, 2010, 06:05:37 PM »


This?

Seriously, come on please stop proposing MBTs for the AFP, it will not happen because logistically speaking its a nightmare.

Imagine we have 30 or more MBTs like refurbished M60s or even M1A1s, it will also need flatbed trucks or a rail system to transport them within Luzon.

If another Mindanao war breaks out, the Philippine Navy will have a hard time transporting these monstrous heaps of metal.

I'd rather have wheeled armored vehicles mounted with hellfire ATGMs.


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slayermoonlight

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Re: SUITABLE MAIN BATTLE TANK FOR PHILIPPINE TERRAIN
« Reply #17 on: September 13, 2010, 06:49:08 PM »
But the dreaded Kuligligs!  (|8|
 
Oh Gawds, how are they going to defend against those monstrous things!?

The Philippine Army will need a 100-ton tank to take on those Kuligligs of mass destruction.

Wahahaha!!! See last time you want me to end in a garbage bag when I talk "sense"  on this MBT fantasy fad.  Now your involving the poor little kuligligs...



wait a minute.... are there really armed Kuligligs??? If there is then damn this is a major threat  that needs to be addressed.  Sir SecDef, we need Leopards to kill those Kuligligs!!
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mamiyapis

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Re: SUITABLE MAIN BATTLE TANK FOR PHILIPPINE TERRAIN
« Reply #18 on: September 13, 2010, 09:01:25 PM »
But the dreaded Kuligligs!  (|8|
 
Oh Gawds, how are they going to defend against those monstrous things!?

The Philippine Army will need a 100-ton tank to take on those Kuligligs of mass destruction.

Oh god, I forgot about them! We'll probably need 210mm guns to kill 'em! (|8|

xyzseaman

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Re: SUITABLE MAIN BATTLE TANK FOR PHILIPPINE TERRAIN
« Reply #19 on: September 13, 2010, 11:49:01 PM »
Wahahaha!!! See last time you want me to end in a garbage bag when I talk "sense"  on this MBT fantasy fad.  Now your involving the poor little kuligligs...

wait a minute.... are there really armed Kuligligs??? If there is then damn this is a major threat  that needs to be addressed.  Sir SecDef, we need Leopards to kill those Kuligligs!!

This discussion is silly to begin with. Fielding MBTs presents a huge challenge that it's not going to be feasible for a LONG, LONG time. I don't know why some tank fanboys here gets a raging hard-on for those things when there are other pressing matters the Philippine Army needs to take care of first.

As for the Kuligligs, the MILF has been using them as a poor man's AA equipped with .50 cal machine gun.
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PDFF

ForceRecon

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Re: SUITABLE MAIN BATTLE TANK FOR PHILIPPINE TERRAIN
« Reply #20 on: September 14, 2010, 12:27:42 AM »
I don't know who the author of this  (5 part) series is on the M1 Abrams on YouTube, but the viewers comments are interesting. Many of the people who comment seem to have 1st hand knowledge on heavy armor operations.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xbNtjH8dWuw&feature=related (part 1)

Kulangsakain

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Re: SUITABLE MAIN BATTLE TANK FOR PHILIPPINE TERRAIN
« Reply #21 on: September 14, 2010, 12:31:07 AM »
Tama, hindi bagay ang MBT in Philippine setting. Mas maganda ang V 150 lang talaga. Fast at maneuverable.

ka nognog

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Re: SUITABLE MAIN BATTLE TANK FOR PHILIPPINE TERRAIN
« Reply #22 on: September 14, 2010, 01:04:33 AM »
... Mas maganda ang V 150 lang talaga. Fast at maneuverable.

Kung nasa military service ka talaga at nag-iisip, palagay ko hindi ka magsasabi ng ganyan.
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prairiefire

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Re: SUITABLE MAIN BATTLE TANK FOR PHILIPPINE TERRAIN
« Reply #23 on: September 14, 2010, 02:56:33 AM »
Ka Nogs,

In your opinion, what would be the  armored vehicle type / kind that would be ideal for COIN / LIC operations in this country's terrain? Since MBT's are obviously not feasible, and the V150s are at the opposite side of the feasibility spectrum, what would be ideal?

TIA!

warbird

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Re: SUITABLE MAIN BATTLE TANK FOR PHILIPPINE TERRAIN
« Reply #24 on: September 14, 2010, 03:11:14 AM »


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ka nognog

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Re: SUITABLE MAIN BATTLE TANK FOR PHILIPPINE TERRAIN
« Reply #25 on: September 14, 2010, 04:31:44 AM »
Ka Nogs,

In your opinion, what would be the  armored vehicle type / kind that would be ideal for COIN / LIC operations in this country's terrain? Since MBT's are obviously not feasible, and the V150s are at the opposite side of the feasibility spectrum, what would be ideal?

No simple answer, doc.... From an infantryman's myopic point of view (which may be considered as sacrilege by my cavalry colleagues)... And working on the assumption that we don't mess up so much that the NPA stays were they are now and are not able to advance their struggle into the Strategic Stalemate Stage and that the threat with SPSG and Abu Sayaff remains as it is today...

Against the NPA... any armored vehicle is practically insignificant in combat terms. These vehicles will not be there when you need them. The NPA does not fight unless he has the upper hand, and when he do, he will have something up his sleeve to neutralize any armored vehicle that he expects you to use. Generally, you can not attack them using armored vehicles because they are not in places where any armored vehicle can reach them (I used the qualifying term "generally" here because there were instances where AVs were used in offensive opns against them, but this is rare and happened in flat terrains against enemies who were foolish enough to think they can get away with it). So if we have money for MBTs, I would rather that we use this money to improve training (from individual skills and discipline to small unit tactics), upgrade our ISR capability (HUMINT, SIGINT and IMINT collection and processing systems), PsyOps, artillery, helicopter gunships, lift choppers (capable of carrying at least 1 squad of infantrymen), and improve logistics for increased and sustained operational tempo (and can I add Good Governance?). However... in COIN, perception is reality, and armored vehicles do have PsyOps value (both directed at the enemy and for our own troops and people)...

Against the SPSG and ASG... These groups have the penchant to attack in relatively large number centers of civilian populations and establish "territories" in relatively "tankable" areas... MBTs here would be great... but without the necessary combat engineer support and logistics train (you can't just drop by at a small town Petron station to fill-up your M1A1), I would prefer more the track IFVs carrying guns larger than cal.50s and that pic of FNSS ACV with the BMP-3 turret sure looks very interesting, and some mix of wheeled AVs for lighter duties. It should not be an either/or choice. It should be the right mix of FSV and infantry carriers. What is more important than the size of the gun, however, is its fire control system (should be able to see and shoot at any time)...

So... If we can buy MBTs (be it M48s or the most expensive sexy models), just make sure that we also buy the necessary systems to ensure that these MBTs can go where and when they are needed. With that, and with our reality, I wish that we have a mix of IFVs (capable of carrying infantry dismounts) and FSVs (that may serve as tank destroyers in case some invasion fleet do show up in our shores, or at least make our people who are watching the Independence Day Parade think that we can do something about it if it happens), both preferably tracked. And with wheeled vehicles for lighter duties such as convoy protection and protection of vital facilities located in easily accessible terrain.
« Last Edit: September 15, 2010, 04:24:40 AM by ka nognog »
"God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I can not change, courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to know the difference...."

slayermoonlight

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Re: SUITABLE MAIN BATTLE TANK FOR PHILIPPINE TERRAIN
« Reply #26 on: September 14, 2010, 04:50:31 AM »
Tama, hindi bagay ang MBT in Philippine setting. Mas maganda ang V 150 lang talaga. Fast at maneuverable.


musta na nga pala kayo jan sa Spratleys?  Ay teka nasa Quezon Avenue ka pala kumain ka nga pala sa Ma Mon Luk. Ay teka may Ma Mon Luk ba jan sa KIG?  Ang gulo ng mga sundalo sa Pilipinas kung saan-saan napupunta para kumain  :eyes:

oh man... epic fail  :thumbsdown:
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cebuboy

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Re: SUITABLE MAIN BATTLE TANK FOR PHILIPPINE TERRAIN
« Reply #27 on: September 14, 2010, 04:55:03 AM »

(you can't just drop by at a small town Petron station to fill-up your M1A1)

FSVs (that may serve as tank destroyers in case some invasion fleet do show up in our shores, or at least make our people who are watching the Independence Day Parade think that we can do something about it if it happens)

 :lol:
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groundpounder

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Re: SUITABLE MAIN BATTLE TANK FOR PHILIPPINE TERRAIN
« Reply #28 on: September 14, 2010, 05:57:06 AM »
The tank destroyers made by Italy and France are suitable for the terrain in Philippines. There not MBT's but the tank destoryers can be effective by their speed, manuevarability, and building tactics to defeat the bigger MBT's.

Kulangsakain

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Re: SUITABLE MAIN BATTLE TANK FOR PHILIPPINE TERRAIN
« Reply #29 on: September 14, 2010, 05:59:14 AM »
Pag uwian nga, Ma Moon Luk ang tirada ko naman. SO far so good sa Area of Responsibility namin. Walang Neps  na sighting.
Yung MBT debate is but moot. Alam na ninyo ang V 150 ang ma afford  lang natin.  Pati nga bala at kainan kulang,  how much more MBTs. Keep on dreaming mga sir s, at least we have something to discuss here in timawa. At least killing time din sa boredom ..

« Last Edit: September 14, 2010, 06:02:01 AM by Kulangsakain »