Author Topic: Sub-state for MILF... interesting  (Read 4183 times)

hughdotoh

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Re: Sub-state for MILF... interesting
« Reply #15 on: September 23, 2010, 09:10:45 AM »
This pretty much stems from the Philippine leadership treating the Milf like it was a political entity representing "the Moros".

Here's news: Milf is not a political entity. It's just a heavily-armed band of disgruntled tribalists distrusted by Moros.

End the charade of giving them political legitimacy.

Ignatius1

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Re: Sub-state for MILF... interesting
« Reply #16 on: September 23, 2010, 10:41:34 AM »
Precision strikes at known groupings of Moro Terrorists, neutralization of their loud-mouthed leaders and decimation of the ranks of their cadres through gradual assimilation for those who prefer the route.  Turn those who choose to slug it out into battlefield body counts.
Speaking softly while walking all over them with a big and lethal stick appear to be the only language they understand, so let's give it to them.

Of all the places where "dedicated" AHs with precision attack capability would be of good use, it is in this arena.  When they assemble as a force attack them, if they disperse as individuals arrest them.

I understand that there are other aspects (economics, etc.) of this issue that have to be dealt with, but I think the leadership of the supposed MILF is a significant factor in perpetuating this conflict. If the GRP gets rid of the guys who have delusions of being "hari," "sultan," or what have you, then maybe the other (non-armed conflict) aspects of the issue can be given more attention.
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citizend13

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Re: Sub-state for MILF... interesting
« Reply #17 on: September 23, 2010, 03:51:25 PM »
It's absolutely stupid. It sets a precedent for every warlord with delusions of ruling his own state. The greater good would dictate that we just make the leaders go away. Hell it's not as if they haven't done ops like those before right? A small dedicated task force that can move in and out without being noticed.. complete deniability.  :ninja:
We saw the lightning and that was the guns and then we heard the thunder and that was the big guns; and then we heard the rain falling and that was the blood falling; and when we came to get in the crops, it was dead men that we reaped.  ~Harriet Tubman

anak ni sarge

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Re: Sub-state for MILF... interesting
« Reply #18 on: September 23, 2010, 04:31:00 PM »
Of all the places where "dedicated" AHs with precision attack capability would be of good use, it is in this arena.  When they assemble as a force attack them, if they disperse as individuals arrest them.

I've been pondering over this but think about it again. Maybe PAF was right all along with its insistence for armed yet troop lift capable helos.

So let's say they bought the Sokol AH version. One moonless night, the Army Rangers got a good tip a very high ranking Moro Terrorist is at a verifiable location, resting with his band. The Sokol AH lifts off with a team of Rangers, lands them a few kilometers from the terrorist location then proceeds to lead the way to the target. After identifying the location and verifying the presence of the terrorists, maybe even draw some fires, and coordinating with the team of Rangers fast closing in, it lets go of its precision munitions. The band of terrorists are wiped out. The Rangers do their mopping up operations, secure the area then board the Sokol to return to the base.

How noisy is the Sokol compared to the MG-520, anyway?
PN according to Manokski:
"something gray with a side number on it that floats"
PAF according to Ramon J. Farolan:
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PA according to drkula
"it is better to talk forever than fight forever"


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gambit325

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Re: Sub-state for MILF... interesting
« Reply #19 on: September 23, 2010, 04:45:16 PM »
Giving in to their demands is stupid. This would only give them an excuse to claim more territory, and to wage war once again.

Face it, there is no talking to these bandits. I agree with hughdotoh, just wipe them out!  :goggles:

Tora^2

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Re: Sub-state for MILF... interesting
« Reply #20 on: September 23, 2010, 05:44:50 PM »
It's not as easy as deciding on when and how to take them out militarily.

There are too many political complications involved here.

And I am not talking about getting the ire of moral leaders like the Catholic Church and the more Leftward who would cry Human Rights Abuse.

Despite their cause being 100% Baloney (sorry for using a haram metaphor), the MILF has friends who have their support. These include leaders of nations we import oil from and send labor to and those who are willing to join the MILF's struggle or retaliate in their behalf be they JI, Al Qaeda, Abu Sayyaf or Muhjahadeen.
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gambit325

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Re: Sub-state for MILF... interesting
« Reply #21 on: September 23, 2010, 07:12:00 PM »
Tora: Yes, I realize that if we take them out as a group they would scatter and strike individually. Which would be a big headache to our internal security.

However, I find it alarming that after we have given the Moros autonomy here they are still asking for more. I wonder what they would ask next.  :shock:

atty_rcb

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Re: Sub-state for MILF... interesting
« Reply #22 on: September 23, 2010, 07:40:45 PM »
Government welcomes new MILF position on 'sub-state'
By Jose Rodel Clapano (The Philippine Star) Updated September 24, 2010 12:00 AM

MANILA, Philippines - The government’s chief peace negotiator welcomed yesterday the announcement of the Moro Islamic Liberation Front (MILF) that it would no longer demand an independent state in Mindanao.

Dean Marvic Leonen, head of the government’s peace negotiating panel, said the MILF’s position not to demand an independent state would pave the way for a “politically feasible” solution to the Mindanao conflict.

“This will definitely pave the way to finding an understanding for a politically feasible arrangement that maintains the territorial integrity and the fundamental premise of people’s sovereignty in one republic,” he said.

“We will listen to their proposals and are willing to work with them to find a just, comprehensive and lasting peace,” Leonen said.

Mohagher Iqbal, the MILF’s chief negotiator, said the front would no longer pursue the Bangsamoro juridical entity that was part of the aborted Memorandum of Agreement on Ancestral Domain that the Supreme Court declared unconstitutional last year.

Instead, Iqbal said the MILF would propose the creation of a “sub-state arrangement,” likening the sub-state to one of the 50 federated states of the United States.

The government is still awaiting the decision of the Malaysian government to remain as third party facilitator in the peace negotiations.

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“It is the greatest good to the greatest number of people which is the measure of right and wrong.”   Jeremy Bentham

gritpaladin

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Re: Sub-state for MILF... interesting
« Reply #23 on: September 23, 2010, 07:51:39 PM »
Sub-state?  I thought they have ARMM for their government to lead them?  Also I am not in favor of Malaysia trying to go middleman in our Internal Affairs and ask for their Go-Signal....They just make things Worst.

Merkava

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Re: Sub-state for MILF... interesting
« Reply #24 on: September 23, 2010, 09:24:03 PM »
All that is needed in Mindanao is 1 decisive battle   ,a short but massive war to wipe out these hooligans and put an end to their misery. The GRP only need to have the GUTS to do it.
MILF should be outlawed, their leaders should be arrested include their supporters/sympathizers ( this means their family members, some politicians, some foreigners and some people in the AFP itself who are selling them guns and ammunitions!).
For God sake they are dragging the country to poverty for a long time now, and our neighbors are laughing at us esp Malaysia and China, we have even lost their respect on us.
The AFP and Malacanang must do something about it NOW!
There can be no real progress in Mindanao if there is no peace.
Lets face it guys "if you want peace prepare for war".
To guarantee success, act as if it were impossible to fail.

vynncute

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Re: Sub-state for MILF... interesting
« Reply #25 on: September 23, 2010, 11:45:49 PM »
All that is needed in Mindanao is 1 decisive battle   ,a short but massive war to wipe out these hooligans and put an end to their misery. The GRP only need to have the GUTS to do it.
MILF should be outlawed, their leaders should be arrested include their supporters/sympathizers ( this means their family members, some politicians, some foreigners and some people in the AFP itself who are selling them guns and ammunitions!).
For God sake they are dragging the country to poverty for a long time now, and our neighbors are laughing at us esp Malaysia and China, we have even lost their respect on us.
The AFP and Malacanang must do something about it NOW!
There can be no real progress in Mindanao if there is no peace.
Lets face it guys "if you want peace prepare for war".


Then what?

- its a bad image for us, sasabihin ng ibang bansa hindi natin pinapahalagahan at pinangangalagaan ang "HUMAN RIGHTS".  

bad bad bad!  :angel:

- Hindi ba't galit tayo sa colonyalismo tulad ng ginawa ng mga kastila at kano? bakit parang ganon na rin tayo? Kolonyalista...

- Nakipaglaban din tayo upang matamasa ang KALAYAAN, tama po ba? ngunit nabigo sa pagdating ng mga amerikano sapagkat ibinenta ang ating bansa sa halagang $2M ng mga talunang Kastila sa Treaty of Paris

- Ngunit ang mga kapatid nating mga moro, hindi nagpatalo. lumaban sa mga Kastila sa loob ng 300 taon. ibig sabihin, malaya sila noong dumating ang mga Amerikano. Patunay nito ang BATES TREATY ngunit sila may hindi rin nakaligtas sa tusong mga Amerikano. Nasakop at natalo sa mga labanan ngunit nananatiling buhay ang pagasang makakamit ang tinatamasang "Kalayaan".

- Nakipaglaban tayo sa mga amerikano na tinawag na FILIPINO-AMERICAN WAR ngunit natalo, naging kakampi ng Kano sa ikalawang digmaang pandaigdig at pagkatapos ay naging malaya na rin. masakit mang sabihin ngunit "NAGING TUTA" din nila tayo, ngayon lang tayo nagising...

- Sa paglaya natin ay namana natin ang mga teritoryong hindi dapat sakop ng Pilipinas. Naisama ang mga teritoryong sakop ng mga Moro sapagkat paniwala ng Kastila na sa kanila ang mga teritoryong ibinenta sa Kano.

- Ngayon, kung ating titignan ang masalimuot nating kasaysayan, marapat na sabihin na ang ating mga kapatid na Moro ay may karapatang ipaglaban ang LUPA NG KANILANG MGA NINUNO na kagaya rin ng ipinaglabang KALAYAAN ng ating mga bayaning tulad ni (LAPU-LAPU, BONIFACIO, AGUINALDO at iba pang nagpakamartir sa BaYan) laban sa Kastila at Amerikano.

- Ang pakikipagtunggali ng mga Moro sa Republika ng Pilipinas upang makamit ang kalayaan (at this time, A Sub-State within a State) ay maihahalintulad o maihahambing natin sa ating sitwasyon 112 taon na ang nakakaraan na pakikipaglaban sa mga Kastila. At sa pagkakataong ito, tayo ang lumalabas na mga KOLONYALISTANG MGA KASTILA at ang mga Moro ang Tumatayong REBOLUSYONARYONG PILIPINO.

- Kung sa kasalukuyang panahon ay ang kanilang proposisyong "Sub-State within a State" ay makakasagot sa ilang dekadang digmaan na kumitil sa buhay ng libo-libong sundalo, sibilyan at moro, mainam lamang na pagusapan itong mabuti at masusing pag-aralan kung papaano ito maisasakatuparan na kung saan ang lahat ng panig (Pilipino at Moro) ay hindi dehado.

- Maaring sa pagbasa ng tugon ko sa sinulid na ito, ang iba sa inyo ay namulat o di naman kaya ay namuni. para sa mga namulat ang kaisipan (BHUDDA BLESS YAH!), para naman sa namuhi (JUST FACE IT BRO! REALITY BITES)

- Kung sa palagay ninyo ay hindi kayo pabor sa mga katotohanang inilahad ko base sa kasaysayan, at hindi rin pabor sa proposisyon ng mga Moro, bilang isang HAMON, ANO ANG INYONG PERSONAL NA SUHISTYON UPANG MAKAMIT ANG MAPAYAPANG PAMAMARAAN SA PROBLEMA NATIN SA MGA MORO NG MINDANAO?








« Last Edit: September 23, 2010, 11:52:20 PM by vynncute »
Quotes from Mikhail Kalashnikova:

•   "When I see Bin Laden with his AK-47, I got nervous. But what can I do, terrorists aren't fools: they too chose the most reliable guns." "I'm proud of my invention, but I'm sad that it is used by terrorists," he said on a visit to Germany, adding: "I would prefer to have invented a machine that people could use and that would help farmers with their work — for example a lawnmower.
•   "My work is my life, and my life is my work. I invented this assault rifle to defend my country. Today, I am proud that it has become for many synonymous with liberty."
•   "It is the Germans who are responsible for the fact that I became a fabricator of arms. If not for them, I would have constructed agricultural machines. (...) If someone asks me how I can sleep at night knowing that my arms have killed millions of people, I respond that I have no problem sleeping, my conscience is clean. I constructed arms to defend my country."
•   "Before attempting to create something new, it is vital to have a good appreciation of everything that already exists in this field."
•   "I am still ready to shake hands with anyone who designs a better assault rifle than mine."
•   "It is painful for me to see when criminal elements of all kinds fire from my weapon [...] I created this weapon primarily to safeguard our motherland"
•   "Anything that is complex is not useful and anything that is useful is simple. This has been my whole life's motto."

gambit325

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Re: Sub-state for MILF... interesting
« Reply #26 on: September 24, 2010, 12:13:21 AM »

Then what?

- its a bad image for us, sasabihin ng ibang bansa hindi natin pinapahalagahan at pinangangalagaan ang "HUMAN RIGHTS".  

bad bad bad!  :angel:

- Hindi ba't galit tayo sa colonyalismo tulad ng ginawa ng mga kastila at kano? bakit parang ganon na rin tayo? Kolonyalista...

- Nakipaglaban din tayo upang matamasa ang KALAYAAN, tama po ba? ngunit nabigo sa pagdating ng mga amerikano sapagkat ibinenta ang ating bansa sa halagang $2M ng mga talunang Kastila sa Treaty of Paris

- Ngunit ang mga kapatid nating mga moro, hindi nagpatalo. lumaban sa mga Kastila sa loob ng 300 taon. ibig sabihin, malaya sila noong dumating ang mga Amerikano. Patunay nito ang BATES TREATY ngunit sila may hindi rin nakaligtas sa tusong mga Amerikano. Nasakop at natalo sa mga labanan ngunit nananatiling buhay ang pagasang makakamit ang tinatamasang "Kalayaan".

- Nakipaglaban tayo sa mga amerikano na tinawag na FILIPINO-AMERICAN WAR ngunit natalo, naging kakampi ng Kano sa ikalawang digmaang pandaigdig at pagkatapos ay naging malaya na rin. masakit mang sabihin ngunit "NAGING TUTA" din nila tayo, ngayon lang tayo nagising...

- Sa paglaya natin ay namana natin ang mga teritoryong hindi dapat sakop ng Pilipinas. Naisama ang mga teritoryong sakop ng mga Moro sapagkat paniwala ng Kastila na sa kanila ang mga teritoryong ibinenta sa Kano.

- Ngayon, kung ating titignan ang masalimuot nating kasaysayan, marapat na sabihin na ang ating mga kapatid na Moro ay may karapatang ipaglaban ang LUPA NG KANILANG MGA NINUNO na kagaya rin ng ipinaglabang KALAYAAN ng ating mga bayaning tulad ni (LAPU-LAPU, BONIFACIO, AGUINALDO at iba pang nagpakamartir sa BaYan) laban sa Kastila at Amerikano.

- Ang pakikipagtunggali ng mga Moro sa Republika ng Pilipinas upang makamit ang kalayaan (at this time, A Sub-State within a State) ay maihahalintulad o maihahambing natin sa ating sitwasyon 112 taon na ang nakakaraan na pakikipaglaban sa mga Kastila. At sa pagkakataong ito, tayo ang lumalabas na mga KOLONYALISTANG MGA KASTILA at ang mga Moro ang Tumatayong REBOLUSYONARYONG PILIPINO.

- Kung sa kasalukuyang panahon ay ang kanilang proposisyong "Sub-State within a State" ay makakasagot sa ilang dekadang digmaan na kumitil sa buhay ng libo-libong sundalo, sibilyan at moro, mainam lamang na pagusapan itong mabuti at masusing pag-aralan kung papaano ito maisasakatuparan na kung saan ang lahat ng panig (Pilipino at Moro) ay hindi dehado.

- Maaring sa pagbasa ng tugon ko sa sinulid na ito, ang iba sa inyo ay namulat o di naman kaya ay namuni. para sa mga namulat ang kaisipan (BHUDDA BLESS YAH!), para naman sa namuhi (JUST FACE IT BRO! REALITY BITES)

- Kung sa palagay ninyo ay hindi kayo pabor sa mga katotohanang inilahad ko base sa kasaysayan, at hindi rin pabor sa proposisyon ng mga Moro, bilang isang HAMON, ANO ANG INYONG PERSONAL NA SUHISTYON UPANG MAKAMIT ANG MAPAYAPANG PAMAMARAAN SA PROBLEMA NATIN SA MGA MORO NG MINDANAO?


Why should we take a peaceful approach? We've tried that so many times yet the MILF always find another reason for them to take up arms.

If the MILF find it easy to be terrorists and attack our innocent civilians, why can't we be violent to them as well? (and yes, I won't say Moro as I know not all of them are terrorists)

Merkava

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Re: Sub-state for MILF... interesting
« Reply #27 on: September 24, 2010, 12:53:15 AM »
If they want a "sub-state". They can have Sabah. :duel:
To guarantee success, act as if it were impossible to fail.

atty_rcb

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Re: Sub-state for MILF... interesting
« Reply #28 on: September 24, 2010, 03:31:16 AM »
They don't care about Human Rights either because they cut the heads of both the Military and Civilian Hostages......








Then what?

- its a bad image for us, sasabihin ng ibang bansa hindi natin pinapahalagahan at pinangangalagaan ang "HUMAN RIGHTS". 

bad bad bad!  :angel:

- Hindi ba't galit tayo sa colonyalismo tulad ng ginawa ng mga kastila at kano? bakit parang ganon na rin tayo? Kolonyalista...

- Nakipaglaban din tayo upang matamasa ang KALAYAAN, tama po ba? ngunit nabigo sa pagdating ng mga amerikano sapagkat ibinenta ang ating bansa sa halagang $2M ng mga talunang Kastila sa Treaty of Paris

- Ngunit ang mga kapatid nating mga moro, hindi nagpatalo. lumaban sa mga Kastila sa loob ng 300 taon. ibig sabihin, malaya sila noong dumating ang mga Amerikano. Patunay nito ang BATES TREATY ngunit sila may hindi rin nakaligtas sa tusong mga Amerikano. Nasakop at natalo sa mga labanan ngunit nananatiling buhay ang pagasang makakamit ang tinatamasang "Kalayaan".

- Nakipaglaban tayo sa mga amerikano na tinawag na FILIPINO-AMERICAN WAR ngunit natalo, naging kakampi ng Kano sa ikalawang digmaang pandaigdig at pagkatapos ay naging malaya na rin. masakit mang sabihin ngunit "NAGING TUTA" din nila tayo, ngayon lang tayo nagising...

- Sa paglaya natin ay namana natin ang mga teritoryong hindi dapat sakop ng Pilipinas. Naisama ang mga teritoryong sakop ng mga Moro sapagkat paniwala ng Kastila na sa kanila ang mga teritoryong ibinenta sa Kano.

- Ngayon, kung ating titignan ang masalimuot nating kasaysayan, marapat na sabihin na ang ating mga kapatid na Moro ay may karapatang ipaglaban ang LUPA NG KANILANG MGA NINUNO na kagaya rin ng ipinaglabang KALAYAAN ng ating mga bayaning tulad ni (LAPU-LAPU, BONIFACIO, AGUINALDO at iba pang nagpakamartir sa BaYan) laban sa Kastila at Amerikano.

- Ang pakikipagtunggali ng mga Moro sa Republika ng Pilipinas upang makamit ang kalayaan (at this time, A Sub-State within a State) ay maihahalintulad o maihahambing natin sa ating sitwasyon 112 taon na ang nakakaraan na pakikipaglaban sa mga Kastila. At sa pagkakataong ito, tayo ang lumalabas na mga KOLONYALISTANG MGA KASTILA at ang mga Moro ang Tumatayong REBOLUSYONARYONG PILIPINO.

- Kung sa kasalukuyang panahon ay ang kanilang proposisyong "Sub-State within a State" ay makakasagot sa ilang dekadang digmaan na kumitil sa buhay ng libo-libong sundalo, sibilyan at moro, mainam lamang na pagusapan itong mabuti at masusing pag-aralan kung papaano ito maisasakatuparan na kung saan ang lahat ng panig (Pilipino at Moro) ay hindi dehado.

- Maaring sa pagbasa ng tugon ko sa sinulid na ito, ang iba sa inyo ay namulat o di naman kaya ay namuni. para sa mga namulat ang kaisipan (BHUDDA BLESS YAH!), para naman sa namuhi (JUST FACE IT BRO! REALITY BITES)

- Kung sa palagay ninyo ay hindi kayo pabor sa mga katotohanang inilahad ko base sa kasaysayan, at hindi rin pabor sa proposisyon ng mga Moro, bilang isang HAMON, ANO ANG INYONG PERSONAL NA SUHISTYON UPANG MAKAMIT ANG MAPAYAPANG PAMAMARAAN SA PROBLEMA NATIN SA MGA MORO NG MINDANAO?









Impossible is found in the dictionary of fools


The competitor to be feared the most is the one who never worries about others at all and goes on making himself better all the time --Henry Ford

In critical moments even the very powerful have need of the weakest. ---Aesop ~Zeuxis

They attack the one man with their hate and their shower of weapons. But he is like some rock which stretches into the vast sea and which, exposed to the fury of the winds and beaten against by the waves, endures all the violence -- VIRGIL

“It is the greatest good to the greatest number of people which is the measure of right and wrong.”   Jeremy Bentham

triodetube

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Re: Sub-state for MILF... interesting
« Reply #29 on: September 24, 2010, 05:09:03 AM »
Lets say Noynoy approved and the bangsamoro get what they want, a "sub-state". o ayan may malaking kampo na ang mga ugok isang "sub-state". then they get their own "police" (MILF dudes), their own law (shariah), and their own people (bangsamoro/insurgency supporters) with them. there can be no christians as christians are discouraged to live in that "sub-state" by killings and discrimination.  their will be peace peace in mindanao but not for long. as the "police" gains strength by support of the capital, from that "sub-state", and outside support from islam countries, expect a WAR as the "sub-state" wants a country of their own. only this time the "police" strength with tanks will par with AFP thus lots of lives will be lost.
 :bash :bash :bash:  :bash:
wala pong alam na kapayapaan ang mga traydor na mga bangsamoro na yan. ubusin na natin sila para sa pang-matagalan at tunay na kapayapaan sa mindanao at sa ikauunlad ng ating bayan...