Author Topic: Philippines to Consider OV-10 Replacement  (Read 199322 times)

joshtong1234

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Philippines to Consider OV-10 Replacement
« on: January 18, 2011, 03:04:48 AM »
Philippines to Consider OV-10 Replacement

Philippine's OV-10 Bronco (photo : Airliners)


The Philippines has a requirement for a single-engined light attack turboprop as it considers replacing its Rockwell OV-10 Broncos.

The new aircraft will need to match the specifications of the OV-10 in terms of weapons, powerplant, and observation efficiency, says the Philippine air force. It will also need short take-off and landing capability.

An air force team has been drafting an outline for the requirement, which will at some point be submitted to the Philippines' defence department. The air force says, however, that the budget could be an issue.

Possible candidates could include the Embraer EMB-314 Super Tucano, Korea Aerospace Industries KT-1 and Beechcraft T-6 Texan II.

In November 2010, neighbouring Indonesia ordered eight Super Tucanos to replace its OV-10s. This was Embraer's first Asian sale for the type, although the deal has still to be approved by Indonesia's defence ministry.

As an interim measure, the Philippines is in talks with Thailand about a donation of Thai OV-10s. Philippines armed forces chief staff Gen Ricardo David Jr was recently in Thailand, with the possible OV-10 exchange raised as a "point of discussion", says the air force.

The Philippines is not sure how many aircraft Thailand is willing to offer, however.

The OV-10 is an important type for the Philippines' air force, which, like Indonesia, uses the aircraft in the counter insurgency mission. The Philippines is afflicted by a number of low-intensity conflicts, particularly on the southern island of Mindanao, where Islamic militants are active.

"The OV-10 is a good platform," says the air force. "It delivers a multiplicity of munitions and is a good observation platform." It adds that at present only eight OV-10s are operational.

In addition, the Philippines could also buy Malaysia's surplus early-model Pilatus PC-7 primary trainers as Kuala Lumpur may purchase 12 additional PC-7 Mk IIs.

Tora^2

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Re: Philippines to Consider OV-10 Replacement
« Reply #1 on: January 18, 2011, 03:34:43 AM »
May we have the source to the article?
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ManilaBoy40

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Re: Philippines to Consider OV-10 Replacement
« Reply #3 on: January 18, 2011, 04:40:32 AM »




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« Last Edit: January 18, 2011, 05:35:43 PM by ManilaBoy40 »
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Analyst

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Re: Philippines to Consider OV-10 Replacement
« Reply #4 on: January 18, 2011, 06:21:18 AM »

joshtong1234

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Re: Philippines to Consider OV-10 Replacement
« Reply #5 on: January 18, 2011, 07:49:20 AM »
just a guess(no research or stuff just a quick answer) I think Manilaboys pic is a Thai OV-10 that crashed

davemap

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Re: Philippines to Consider OV-10 Replacement
« Reply #6 on: January 18, 2011, 08:05:29 AM »
im more concern on the PAF interest on the Malaysian PC7 trainers . Would it be a nightmare for the logistic..
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Ignatius1

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Re: Philippines to Consider OV-10 Replacement
« Reply #7 on: January 18, 2011, 09:45:27 AM »
The new aircraft will need to match the specifications of the OV-10 in terms of weapons, powerplant, and observation efficiency, says the Philippine air force. It will also need short take-off and landing capability.

There they again...What does matching power plants mean?

An air force team has been drafting an outline for the requirement, which will at some point be submitted to the Philippines' defence department. The air force says, however, that the budget could be an issue.

In addition, the Philippines could also buy Malaysia's surplus early-model Pilatus PC-7 primary trainers as Kuala Lumpur may purchase 12 additional PC-7 Mk IIs.

Articulate the general force requirements first, then worry about what the budget can buy. IF the PC-7s meet the requirements, then it wouldn't be unreasonable to consider them especially with the budget in mind. Again, mission requirements first.

So, what are the requirements?
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Adroth

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Re: Philippines to Consider OV-10 Replacement
« Reply #8 on: January 18, 2011, 10:39:56 AM »
just a guess(no research or stuff just a quick answer) I think Manilaboys pic is a Thai OV-10 that crashed

The subject of ManilaBoy's photograph is an OV-10 that encountered a runway mishap in 2006 . . . right in front of visiting US troops.

PHOTOS:



-- REPUBLIC OF THE PHILIPPINES-U.S. Marines from Marine Wing Support Squadron 172 and members of the Philippine Air Force carry a Philippine pilot to an awaiting ambulance after an aviation mishap at Clark Air Base in Pampanga, Oct. 24. The pilot's OV-10 Bronco aircraft swerved off the runway upon landing at the air base after completing maneuvers during joint air attack tactics (JAAT) training as part of the RP-US bilateral training exercises Talon Vision and Amphibious Landing Exercise (PHIBLEX) 2007. The annual exercises are designed to enhance interoperability and professional relations between the U.S. and Philippine Armed Forces. (U.S. Marine Corps photo by Staff Sgt. Ricardo Morales)


-- REPUBLIC OF THE PHILIPPINES-Philippine and U.S. Marine Corps Crash, Fire, Rescue teams respond to a downed Philippine Air Force OV-10 Bronco aircraft that swerved off the runway upon landing at Clark Air Base in Pampanga, Oct. 24. The Marine Aircraft Rescue Firefighting unit with Marine Wing Support Squadron 172 is attached to the 3rd Marine Expeditionary Brigade, which is currently in the Philippines participating in bilateral training exercises Talon Vision and Amphibious Landing Exercise (PHIBLEX) FY 2007. The annual exercises are designed to enhance interoperability and professional relations between the U.S. and Philippine Armed Forces. (U.S. Marine Corps photo by Staff Sgt. Ricardo Morales)

====

Articulate the general force requirements first, then worry about what the budget can buy. IF the PC-7s meet the requirements, then it wouldn't be unreasonable to consider them especially with the budget in mind. Again, mission requirements first.

Was it really Gen David that said those words . . . or was the author of the article expressing an opinion?
« Last Edit: January 18, 2011, 10:49:56 AM by Adroth »
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Ignatius1

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Re: Philippines to Consider OV-10 Replacement
« Reply #9 on: January 18, 2011, 11:13:52 AM »
Was it really Gen David that said those words . . . or was the author of the article expressing an opinion?

The air force says, however, that the budget could be an issue.

"The air force" is a rather nebulous term, but it does not appear that the author of the article is expressing an opinion. Considering how the PAF has articulated (at least what is published) its previous acquisitions, it isn't unreasonable that they would again include budget considerations in drafting requirements.   
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Tora^2

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Re: Philippines to Consider OV-10 Replacement
« Reply #10 on: January 18, 2011, 11:22:23 AM »
With the PAF talking of replacing its Broncos and also making a wide turn towards territorial defense, why not replace the OV10 with an LIFT?

Other than a CAS platform, we will eventually need a type of LIFT and fill the low end of a mix of combat jets?

It may cost more but then, a more versatile platform that can perform a wider range of missions  may be a better idea.

Turboprop CAS platforms may not offer so wide a range of missions but they cost less to operate, may require less capital investment to bring into service (like runways, HASes and greater training hours). They also offer certain advantages like longer loiter time over the AO.

As for ex-RMAF PC7s, would Pilatus, the manufacturer allow us to use their planes in combat role? Much less in combat missions against insurgents?
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Ignatius1

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Re: Philippines to Consider OV-10 Replacement
« Reply #11 on: January 18, 2011, 11:59:17 AM »
With the PAF talking of replacing its Broncos and also making a wide turn towards territorial defense, why not replace the OV10 with an LIFT?

Other than a CAS platform, we will eventually need a type of LIFT and fill the low end of a mix of combat jets?

It may cost more but then, a more versatile platform that can perform a wider range of missions  may be a better idea.

Turboprop CAS platforms may not offer so wide a range of missions but they cost less to operate, may require less capital investment to bring into service (like runways, HASes and greater training hours). They also offer certain advantages like longer loiter time over the AO.

As for ex-RMAF PC7s, would Pilatus, the manufacturer allow us to use their planes in combat role? Much less in combat missions against insurgents?

Remember all that harping about force planning in the AH thread? It applies across the PAF's mission areas. It wouldn't be bad for the PAF to go the way of SoKor in terms of the following:

KT-1 as primary/advanced trainer and CAS/COIN bird
T-50 as  AJT/LIFT
F/A-50 as primary combat aircraft

Two airframes as opposed to having multiple. The down side of course is putting your eggs in one basket in terms of source. There's the possibility of tapping into the US light armed aircraft (not the dead LAAR) program designed to help allies (specifically the Afghans and Iraqis). Either way, the path ahead should be laid out instead of having various installments of mismatching acquisitions that doesn't lead to a goal (desired force structure at a certain target date).

If the attempt to acquire the Sokol and the "AH" Sokol is an indication, then there is hope yet as it points to an intent to streamline the force. Unfortunately, the tax paying public will be left to speculate until a certain amount of time passes to see whether or not the resulting force structure reveals a plan of sorts.
« Last Edit: January 18, 2011, 12:20:35 PM by Ignatius1 »
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Manokski

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Now Looking for OV-10 Replacements
« Reply #12 on: January 18, 2011, 01:27:39 PM »
DATE:18/01/11
SOURCE:Flight International
Philippines to consider OV-10 replacement
By Greg Waldron

The Philippines has a requirement for a single-engined light attack turboprop as it considers replacing its Rockwell OV-10 Broncos.

The new aircraft will need to match the specifications of the OV-10 in terms of weapons, powerplant, and observation efficiency, says the Philippine air force. It will also need short take-off and landing capability.

An air force team has been drafting an outline for the requirement, which will at some point be submitted to the Philippines' defence department. The air force says, however, that the budget could be an issue.

Possible candidates could include the Embraer EMB-314 Super Tucano, Korea Aerospace Industries KT-1 and Beechcraft T-6 Texan II.

In November 2010, neighbouring Indonesia ordered eight Super Tucanos to replace its OV-10s. This was Embraer's first Asian sale for the type, although the deal has still to be approved by Indonesia's defence ministry.

As an interim measure, the Philippines is in talks with Thailand about a donation of Thai OV-10s. Philippines armed forces chief staff Gen Ricardo David Jr was recently in Thailand, with the possible OV-10 exchange raised as a "point of discussion", says the air force.

The Philippines is not sure how many aircraft Thailand is willing to offer, however.

The OV-10 is an important type for the Philippines' air force, which, like Indonesia, uses the aircraft in the counter insurgency mission. The Philippines is afflicted by a number of low-intensity conflicts, particularly on the southern island of Mindanao, where Islamic militants are active.

"The OV-10 is a good platform," says the air force. "It delivers a multiplicity of munitions and is a good observation platform." It adds that at present only eight OV-10s are operational.

In addition, the Philippines could also buy Malaysia's surplus early-model Pilatus PC-7 primary trainers as Kuala Lumpur may purchase 12 additional PC-7 Mk IIs.
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Ignatius1

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Re: Now Looking for OV-10 Replacements
« Reply #13 on: January 18, 2011, 03:52:16 PM »
The new aircraft will need to match the specifications of the OV-10 in terms of weapons, powerplant, and observation efficiency, says the Philippine air force. It will also need short take-off and landing capability.

Can any of the current "COIN" birds really match the weapons load of the OV-10?  What does matching the powerplant mean? Same overall thrust? Same engine(s)?

What will determine matching observation efficiency? The OV-10 is well designed in terms of fields of view for an observer. That will be hard to match.
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ManilaBoy40

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Re: Philippines to Consider OV-10 Replacement
« Reply #14 on: January 18, 2011, 04:50:24 PM »
Explanations about that photo, MB40?

Crashed Landing Back in 2006 at Clark Air Base due to Landing Gear Malfunction During Talon Vision Exercise...
« Last Edit: January 18, 2011, 05:36:20 PM by ManilaBoy40 »
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