Author Topic: Retitled: BRP Ramon A Alcaraz (PF-16) - ex USCGC Dallas [WHEC-716]  (Read 743757 times)

Chuck Hill

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Re: Retitled: BRP Ramon A Alcaraz - ex USCGC Dallas [WHEC-716]
« Reply #450 on: May 21, 2012, 05:15:53 PM »
Mr H,

Any of your peers attending the ceremony?

None that I am aware of, but I'm out of touch and on the wrong coast.

On my home blog, when I reported the upcoming transfer, an active duty officer made the following comment, "Just spoke with a Coastguardsman who went over to help train the ex-Hamiliton crew. He was very impressed with the renovation made on Hamilton and they have certainly put the ship right to good use. I’d expect the same for Dallas."

I have mixed feelings about up-arming these ships. Would be good to see them  reach their potential as warships, but on the other hand, there is no prospect the Philippines can fight China and win without assistance. The Philippines position is diplomatically strong partly because there is no way anyone can see the Philippines as an aggressor. Even China has to be having a hard time convincing their own people that the Philippines is trying to bully China. It just does not compute.

These ships can be out on station, confronting Chinese aggression, enforcing Philippine law. If the Chinese decide to resort to force, up-arming them will probably not make any difference and it might even be counter-productive.

jiechelle

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Re: Retitled: BRP Ramon A Alcaraz - ex USCGC Dallas [WHEC-716]
« Reply #451 on: May 21, 2012, 07:18:01 PM »
sir Hill, is it plausible  that the electronic warfare suite, armaments installed on Maestrale Class Frigate could be fitted to the Hamilton?
having a "commonality" of the system on both hull seems to be much logical training, maintenance and logistic wise...

thanks

edited---
« Last Edit: May 22, 2012, 08:50:58 AM by jiechelle »
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charismabrix@TMW

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Re: Retitled: BRP Ramon A Alcaraz - ex USCGC Dallas [WHEC-716]
« Reply #452 on: May 21, 2012, 08:13:40 PM »
None that I am aware of, but I'm out of touch and on the wrong coast.

On my home blog, when I reported the upcoming transfer, an active duty officer made the following comment, "Just spoke with a Coastguardsman who went over to help train the ex-Hamiliton crew. He was very impressed with the renovation made on Hamilton and they have certainly put the ship right to good use. I’d expect the same for Dallas."

I have mixed feelings about up-arming these ships. Would be good to see them  reach their potential as warships, but on the other hand, there is no prospect the Philippines can fight China and win without assistance. The Philippines position is diplomatically strong partly because there is no way anyone can see the Philippines as an aggressor. Even China has to be having a hard time convincing their own people that the Philippines is trying to bully China. It just does not compute.

These ships can be out on station, confronting Chinese aggression, enforcing Philippine law. If the Chinese decide to resort to force, up-arming them will probably not make any difference and it might even be counter-productive.


I'm personally pleased with the remarks of your Coastguard the way our navy refitted the Hamilton and I for one am very thankful for that. With regards to uparming Hamilton and Dallas, we should not bear in mind that it is not for the reason to counter China's aggressiveness but for defense to all threats foreign and domestic.  It has been years that we as Filipinos are in a delusion that we're living in a peaceful world that having advanced defenses are not necessary until this awakening happened.

Having escalation with China or not, these ships must be uparmed to defend (keyword is 'defense') themselves and the crew against point-to-point shooters (smugglers, poachers, etc.), missile attacks (from air or ship) and torpedo attacks.  I agree that we must bring back the CIWS as it is a good deterrent against missile attacks but that will be it. Having harpoons on-board will only pose these ships as threat and therefore, yes counter-productive. Instead of harpoons, missile interceptors should be placed to keep its posture as 'defense' arsenal.
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Manokski

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Re: Retitled: BRP Ramon A Alcaraz - ex USCGC Dallas [WHEC-716]
« Reply #453 on: May 21, 2012, 11:31:04 PM »
The thing that a lot of people forget is that the removal of the equipment actually simplifies the transfer for the PN.  It speeds up the transfer AND stand-up process.  Adding weapons lengthens the process and prevents us from benefitting immediately from its use.  PF15 for example was patrolling and in the face of the Chinese within the first month of it being in-country. Right now what we need are ships at sea providing a presence in the area the Chinese are claiming.  If we elect to up arm the Dallas now, it will be months before we receive it and years before it is combat ready.  Unfortunately for us, we are fighting this "war" with the equipment we have.  From the looks of it, the PNs plans are two fold - getting equipment we can use with a minimum of training for our immediate needs while acquiring newer, more heavily armed ships for the future.
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salbahis

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Re: Retitled: BRP Ramon A Alcaraz - ex USCGC Dallas [WHEC-716]
« Reply #454 on: May 21, 2012, 11:51:52 PM »
Quote
2nd US warship sold to Philippines also stripped of guns

Washington has turned down Manila’s request to retain the entire weapons system in the second US Coast Guard cutter the Philippines is acquiring from the United States.
Top Filipino military officials flew to the US last weekend for the ceremonial turnover on May 23 of the 378-ft USCG Dallas in North Charleston, South Carolina.

More
Quote
There are goals and efforts for the Philippines to have the capability to defend itself against external aggression. It is not forgotten. We just have to prioritize. - Ruffy Biazon, former congressman of Muntinlupa City 2001-2011

The Philippines  have done an amazing job keeping their Cannon-class Frigate operational–who would have imagined that the World War II veteran (with a U-boat kill to her credit, no less) would still be up and operational for the Balikatan 2010 exercises?  That is an amazing feat, and if there is a Navy out there that can keep an older combatant going, it’s the Philippines’ Navy.

majorpain@TMW

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Re: Retitled: BRP Ramon A Alcaraz - ex USCGC Dallas [WHEC-716]
« Reply #455 on: May 22, 2012, 07:52:26 AM »
http://ph.news.yahoo.com/2nd-us-warship-sold-philippines-stripped-guns-054005685.html

2nd US warship sold to Philippines also stripped of guns

The vessel will be renamed the BRP Ramon Alcaraz, after the World War II hero and former fleet commander, and will be under the command of Navy Captain Ernesto Baldovino.
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crazeepilot

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Re: Retitled: BRP Ramon A Alcaraz - ex USCGC Dallas [WHEC-716]
« Reply #456 on: May 22, 2012, 08:35:59 AM »
http://ph.news.yahoo.com/2nd-us-warship-sold-philippines-stripped-guns-054005685.html

2nd US warship sold to Philippines also stripped of guns

The vessel will be renamed the BRP Ramon Alcaraz, after the World War II hero and former fleet commander, and will be under the command of Navy Captain Ernesto Baldovino.

Don't despair you got what you paid for.

LionFlyer

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Re: Retitled: BRP Ramon A Alcaraz - ex USCGC Dallas [WHEC-716]
« Reply #457 on: May 22, 2012, 05:13:55 PM »
Transferred and handed over. I suppose the photos will be trickling out by the end of the day.

Quote
The Charleston-based Coast Guard Cutter Dallas officially transferred to the Philippines military today in a ceremony where America’s long ties to the Asian nation were repeatedly promoted.

Rear Adm. John H. Korn spoke of U.S. and Filipino cooperation during World War II, and the friendship that has been in place for decades.


“I hope she will serve the Philippines as faithfully and capably as she has served the United States of America,” he said during a transfer ceremony.

The American flag came of the Dallas for the last time. The new crew is going under training.

The Dallas is being transferred — without charge — after a 45-year career in U.S. service but amid the realization it had become too costly to maintain.

The boat’s new name will be the Ramon Alcaraz, to honor a Filipino naval officer who captained a torpedo boat in some of the earliest engagements with the Japanese at the start of World War II.

http://www.postandcourier.com/article/20120522/PC16/120529743/coast-guard-cutter-dallas-changeover-to-philippines-completed
http://www.washingtonpost.com/national/us-coast-guard-cutter-dallas-turned-over-to-philippines-navy-after-45-years-service/2012/05/22/gIQANy3biU_story.html

Chuck Hill

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Re: Retitled: BRP Ramon A Alcaraz - ex USCGC Dallas [WHEC-716]
« Reply #458 on: May 22, 2012, 05:18:12 PM »
sir Hill, is it plausible  that the electronic warfare suite, armaments installed on Maestrale Class Frigate could be fitted to the Hamilton?
having a "commonality" of the system on both hull seems to be much logical training, maintenance and logistic wise...

thanks

edited---

Possible yes, with the exception of the 5" gun. Still it might not be a good investment. I once talked to a Thai officer aboard a new corvette they had built in the US. It included weapon systems from many sources. I asked him about this, and he said it insured that no one country could cut off support for all the systems on the ship. Unlikely, but something to think about.

Changing out systems gets complicated. All gun based CIWS systems suffer the same problem. They fire at a predicted point of impact. If the incoming missile can maneuver at high "G", the gun will only be effective at very short range, and if more than one missile is targeted to arrive simultaneously, the CIWS will probably not be able to destroy more than one.

davemap

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Re: Retitled: BRP Ramon A Alcaraz - ex USCGC Dallas [WHEC-716]
« Reply #459 on: May 22, 2012, 05:48:37 PM »
http://ph.news.yahoo.com/2nd-us-warship-sold-philippines-stripped-guns-054005685.html

2nd US warship sold to Philippines also stripped of guns

The vessel will be renamed the BRP Ramon Alcaraz, after the World War II hero and former fleet commander, and will be under the command of Navy Captain Ernesto Baldovino.

Capt Baldovino BRP Miguel Malvar will surely miss you....
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40niner_com

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Re: Retitled: BRP Ramon A Alcaraz - ex USCGC Dallas [WHEC-716]
« Reply #460 on: May 22, 2012, 07:36:27 PM »
ABCNews4: Cutter Dallas officially turned over to Philippines
Updated: May 23, 2012 8:08 AM

CHARLESTON, S.C. (WCIV) -- The US Coast Guard Cutter Dallas has officially been turned over to the Philippines.
...
...
In a ceremony Tuesday, more than 100 military personnel and visitors came to the pier at the old Charleston Navy Base.
...
"It's a bitter-sweet day. It's with sadness that we decommission a ship that has served us so faithfully," Rear Admiral John Korn, assistant commandant for acquisition said.

The ceremony included a passing of a spy glass by commanding officers, which is a tradition. It was followed by a handshake and the formal signing of the certificate of delivery.
...
Filipino Navy Captain Ernesto Baldovino says the high-endurance cutter will support Philippines' security and development purposes.

"I'm very proud. I was the commanding officer selected by the workers, and it's good to serve my country," he said.
...
photo from ABC4news site
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majorpain@TMW

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Re: Retitled: BRP Ramon A Alcaraz - ex USCGC Dallas [WHEC-716]
« Reply #461 on: May 22, 2012, 07:40:01 PM »
Don't despair you got what you paid for.

Are you blind, kindly read the post again I even highlighted my point.
"Wise men are not always silent, but they know when to be."

salbahis

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Re: Retitled: BRP Ramon A Alcaraz - ex USCGC Dallas [WHEC-716]
« Reply #462 on: May 22, 2012, 07:42:19 PM »


look at her, all dress in white waving my flag... oh what a beauty.... so i guess she is officially fil-am now...

*nice ass by the way but i like it more if she has stripped*
Quote
There are goals and efforts for the Philippines to have the capability to defend itself against external aggression. It is not forgotten. We just have to prioritize. - Ruffy Biazon, former congressman of Muntinlupa City 2001-2011

The Philippines  have done an amazing job keeping their Cannon-class Frigate operational–who would have imagined that the World War II veteran (with a U-boat kill to her credit, no less) would still be up and operational for the Balikatan 2010 exercises?  That is an amazing feat, and if there is a Navy out there that can keep an older combatant going, it’s the Philippines’ Navy.

40niner_com

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Re: Retitled: BRP Ramon A Alcaraz - ex USCGC Dallas [WHEC-716]
« Reply #463 on: May 22, 2012, 09:09:55 PM »
Associated Press Photos :




« Last Edit: May 22, 2012, 09:23:00 PM by 40niner_com »
Obsolete weapons do not deter. You do not base a defence policy on someone else's good intentions.
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gemini1

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Re: Retitled: BRP Ramon A Alcaraz - ex USCGC Dallas [WHEC-716]
« Reply #464 on: May 22, 2012, 09:38:13 PM »
Dang, they're pretty quick  :( both radar and guns are gone.