Best Bodyguard/Security Detail Weapon

[mysteyr]

    Well, we have "Best Home Defense Weapon" and "Best Self-Defense Weapon" threads. How about a "Best Bodyguard Weapon" thread? 

    Are the tactics for home defense/self-defense equivalent to those of a body guard/security details? Would they need weapons different from those used in typical self-defense scenarios?
 
    What do you guys think?

[mamiyapis]

IMO lang ha?

It depends on a lot of factors, like the perceived threat level of the area or against the principal. Weapons can be as common as pistols or as high-end as "concealable" short-barreled carbines with folding or collapsible stocks.

However, knowledgeable bodyguards usually go for conceal-ability rather than overt displays of force/firepower, unless the situation demands the opposite.

Usually though, pistols are the norm, with extra magazines in concealed carry holsters... and I'm not talking about dead-giveaway gun packs like those belt-bags.

[prairiefire]

Agree with bro M.

The relevant dictum here would be " the mission will drive the gear train".

Low-threat clients would be best served by concealable high capacity semi-auto pistols like the 9mm Glocks. Concealability is key here. If the client is high-risk, short-barreled assault rifles like the M4 Commando PLACED IN THE CLIENT VEHICLE will be most reassuring.

The sky's the limit here, actually. High-risk PSDs in Iraq routinely carried belt-fed machineguns in client vehicles, and had occasion to use them frequently. Have a friend who worked PSD in Baghdad with a British VIP Protection company who daily toted a PKM medium machinegun in his vehicle, in addition to his Glock ( worn underneath coat-and-tie )and 5.56mm SIG 552 rifles.

Here in 'Pinas, a handgun and body armor will usually suffice, with heavier firepower stowed away in the car / SUV, just in case...

[CatsMeow@TMW]

SWAT Magazine writer LeRoy Thompson used to write at great length on bodyguard training and weaponry. As doc PF says, it all depends on the mission. He used to carry a Browning Hi-Power as his primary weapon. He has a dim view of machine pistols, which are used by Russian and Latin American security groups.

I do have at home a Combat Tactics magazine on the weapons recommended for "trunk monkeys", which mentioned, among others, a certain ROF reduction thingy which we are all too familiar with... Of course, if we are to believe "Mac" and Paul Howe, the best is the LWRC PSD 6.8SPC.

[CrowValley]

back in 2004 we had a security detail from PSPO(now PSPG), whenever we were in mindanao they always carry M16's and m14's but when in manila, they had revolvers, not really the best weapon but they make do with what the government gives them, and with the size of their revolvers, it really amazed me how well they concealed them, even when wearing tight shirts, i guess it really depends on where we are and the level of risk the protected has and the training they receive

[aris_glock40]

SWAT Magazine writer LeRoy Thompson used to write at great length on bodyguard training and weaponry. As doc PF says, it all depends on the mission. He used to carry a Browning Hi-Power as his primary weapon. He has a dim view of machine pistols, which are used by Russian and Latin American security groups.

I do have at home a Combat Tactics magazine on the weapons recommended for "trunk monkeys", which mentioned, among others, a certain ROF reduction thingy which we are all too familiar with... Of course, if we are to believe "Mac" and Paul Howe, the best is the LWRC PSD 6.8SPC.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cVNzTUEM9XI&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dHreIMu1d6M
pampainit ng discussion sa taktika ng mga PSD.
OT-batay sa mga kwentuhan ang mga propesyonal VIP details daw ay di nag chachamber load habang naka duty kahit sa mga close in ng presidente dahil iniiwasan nila ang aksidente sa baril, pero parang yun din napuna ko sa mga demo video ng Israeli PSD training, may pamamaraan na lang na dinadaan sa bilis ng pag kasa at pag bunot.

[mysteyr]

Here in 'Pinas, a handgun and body armor will usually suffice, with heavier firepower stowed away in the car / SUV, just in case...

   I saw "Inside Malacanang" and the PSG vehicles carried anti-tank weapons. How is that for heavier fire power?

[mysteyr]

Low-threat clients would be best served by concealable high capacity semi-auto pistols like the 9mm Glocks. Concealability is key here. If the client is high-risk, short-barreled assault rifles like the M4 Commando PLACED IN THE CLIENT VEHICLE will be most reassuring.

   I was thinking more of our typical politico/tongressman/governor/mayor in an area where they are recognized as such.  In such a case, I think it would be obvious to everyone who the guards are and it doesn't make sense to me for them to opt for "concealability."   Yes, their weapons should not be openly brandished. However, I don't think it would make any difference whether they have bulging belt bags/carry bags or whether the weapons are well-concealed. Everyone knows they are carrying weapons  anyway.

   To me, the situation is similar to that of drunks in a public place with their liquor bottles inside a brown paper bag.  You don't see what is inside the bag but everyone knows it is a bottle of alcohol being carried by a drunk.
 
  That being the case, why settle for semi-auto pistols? MP5 perhaps?

[cebuboy]

While your are at it, why not carry a minigun and an AGL too. 

[mysteyr]

While your are at it, why not carry a minigun and an AGL too. 

Too bulky and too heavy to carry. B-)

[mamiyapis]

   I was thinking more of our typical politico/tongressman/governor/mayor in an area where they are recognized as such.  In such a case, I think it would be obvious to everyone who the guards are and it doesn't make sense to me for them to opt for "concealability."   Yes, their weapons should not be openly brandished. However, I don't think it would make any difference whether they have bulging belt bags/carry bags or whether the weapons are well-concealed. Everyone knows they are carrying weapons  anyway.

   To me, the situation is similar to that of drunks in a public place with their liquor bottles inside a brown paper bag.  You don't see what is inside the bag but everyone knows it is a bottle of alcohol being carried by a drunk.
 
  That being the case, why settle for semi-auto pistols? MP5 perhaps?

One word: Escalation.

You're describing goons, mystyer, the original, 1980's movie-kind and not professional PSD or Private Contractors.

Anyone who is REALLY trained in the art of close-in security or personal security will NEVER opt for a larger weapon unless the situation dictates it... why? Because bringing around very obvious weapon packs for anything larger than pistols may make you a "hard" target, but it also broadcasts your capabilities and firepower to the point that any dedicated attacker will know how to plan around or through your security to get to you.

Belt bags, unless WORN as they were intended to be worn(which is NEVER the case with belt-bag totting goons and posers), are a potential gun grab waiting to happen. What do you do if the opposition knows how to operate your concealment kit, grabs it from you during a diversion, and uses your own weapon against you? Boom. You and your principal are dead by your own defense mechanisms.

You NEVER BROADCAST your shots to the enemy. It's the same in PSD as it is in chess or basketball. You are basically always on the defense so you need to stay ahead of the game, and most of the time, the element of absolute surprise is so essential/game-changing that most, if not all trained PSD operators will go for the same.

You don't carry high-profile weapons concealed like the PSG's subguns unless your principal is equivalently high profile. If you can get by without raising red flags everywhere, then you have done your job the best way, and without even firing a single shot.

People who tell you otherwise and say, "Oh, you need to carry an MP5 or UZI or UMP for ultimate protection and to scare the baddies away..." are either talking out of their ass or don't know jack about real PSD work... unfortunately most of the time, it is also both.

[old and tired]

The close in bodyguard relies on the element of surprise, effective weapon concealment and quick deployment of the concealed weapon in a life or death emergency. The tuck in waist holster should fit the weapon well for a fast waist frontal draw. The tucked out shirt should be of sufficient length and loose enough to conceal the weapon.  A friend of mine uses a snub nose .38 special with federal hollow points. Good stopping power at close ranges.  Extra speed loaders are pocketed in sufficiently deep pockets in loose pants. The loose clothing  allows concealment and free movement. It should not be tight to hinder movement. I know of some political bodyguards who use balisong knives as backup. When I was younger I served as a bodyguard with an AFP officer who I will not name for security reasons. I was carrying an M16A1 with four magazines in pouches only in vehicle escort duty and inside residence security. I was also using a Smith and Wesson snub nose .38 special using federal hollow points during close in security in an election campaign somewhere in the NCR.             

[prairiefire]

One word: Escalation.

You're describing goons, mystyer, the original, 1980's movie-kind and not professional PSD or Private Contractors.

Anyone who is REALLY trained in the art of close-in security or personal security will NEVER opt for a larger weapon unless the situation dictates it... why? Because bringing around very obvious weapon packs for anything larger than pistols may make you a "hard" target, but it also broadcasts your capabilities and firepower to the point that any dedicated attacker will know how to plan around or through your security to get to you.

Belt bags, unless WORN as they were intended to be worn(which is NEVER the case with belt-bag totting goons and posers), are a potential gun grab waiting to happen. What do you do if the opposition knows how to operate your concealment kit, grabs it from you during a diversion, and uses your own weapon against you? Boom. You and your principal are dead by your own defense mechanisms.

You NEVER BROADCAST your shots to the enemy. It's the same in PSD as it is in chess or basketball. You are basically always on the defense so you need to stay ahead of the game, and most of the time, the element of absolute surprise is so essential/game-changing that most, if not all trained PSD operators will go for the same.

You don't carry high-profile weapons concealed like the PSG's subguns unless your principal is equivalently high profile. If you can get by without raising red flags everywhere, then you have done your job the best way, and without even firing a single shot.

People who tell you otherwise and say, "Oh, you need to carry an MP5 or UZI or UMP for ultimate protection and to scare the baddies away..." are either talking out of their ass or don't know jack about real PSD work... unfortunately most of the time, it is also both.

Agree.

Physical combat is never the raison d' etre of the PSD / bodyguard. If they can do their jobs and protect their client without having to fight, all the better. In fact, seasoned protection specialists have the opinion that once they have to go to guns, someone, somewhere in their team has failed in their job. Sometimes it is unavoidable, but if at all possible, no shooting!

[ronin]

Not sure if this is entirely OT or not; what caught my attention is not only because this was the gun used in the shooting of that Trayvon kid, but the phrase about this gun (Kel-Tec PF-9) as "popular choice for concealed carry" in the US:

http://newsfeed.time.com/2012/03/28/george-zimmermans-gun-a-popular-choice-for-concealed-carry/

'...The weapon, manufactured by Cocoa, Fla.-based Kel-Tec CNC, is a well-known device and not uncommon for police and private ownership, according to Tom Gresham, host of Gun Talk, a Sirius XM radio show. “The particular model is a popular one for concealed carry,” he says. “It’s a simple firearm, there is nothing unusual about it. This would be a gun any police officer would carry for personal protection.”

'...It weighs about 12 oz. unloaded, has a five-pound trigger pull and has an automatic hammer block safety, which prevents it from firing when dropped. It is also “double-action only,” which means the trigger must be pulled fully in order to fire. In his ownership of the weapon, Zimmerman is not unlike millions of other licensed gun owners.'


Previous posters in this thread have said that PSD usually carry concealed pistols. I wonder if it's also standard practice for bodyguards to also carry a back-up (and also concealed) gun like the Kel-Tech PF-9 (or similar ones)?

If you're in a PSD detail and you plan on carrying a back-up pistol, what would be your choice?

[CatsMeow@TMW]

Yes, Mr. Thompson says he always carried a small back-up pistol with his Browning. It is in fact standard practice, not only for bodyguards, but for LEOs in the US.

On a historical note, if you see a photo of the Kennedy assassination, when the presidential car was speeding away, in the following car there was an agent raising an AR-15. And Hitler's bodyguards had SMGs on the floors of their cars. Hitler himself was armed.