Author Topic: Philippines Acquires MK38 Mod 2 Gun Systems for Navy  (Read 28154 times)

phichanad

  • Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1936
Re: Philippines Acquires MK38 Mod 2 Gun Systems for Navy
« Reply #45 on: September 16, 2012, 01:03:35 AM »
[Thread drift]

@r3mus... here some added info on 76mm ammo that you might be interested -- programmable fuse.
3A Plus multi-function fuse

Cant access it 40...server is forbidden... hmm...

r3mu511@TMW

  • Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1047
Re: Philippines Acquires MK38 Mod 2 Gun Systems for Navy
« Reply #46 on: September 16, 2012, 01:22:34 AM »
(more OT drift...)

@49r, yep downloaded that pdf... just like VT proximity fuzes but with added functions... not a guidance system tho rather a fusing system... still pretty nifty...

@phich, yep link doesn't work... I downloaded the pdf sometime ago, can't recall exactly where I got the link... was just browsing the oto melara site and hit on the catalog...

edit:

@phich: try navigating from the otomelara.it home page, "Sea" -> "Ammunition" -> 3A pdf, I think the site is using cookies to track your browsing so you can't "jump" straight into the pdf, but if you navigate from the home page you can access the pdf...

re-edit:

pdf direct link sometimes works now... hehe, something must be wacky on the oto site...  :lol:
« Last Edit: September 16, 2012, 01:32:11 AM by r3mu511@TMW »

40niner_com

  • Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3984
  • Obsolete weapons do not deter.
Re: Philippines Acquires MK38 Mod 2 Gun Systems for Navy
« Reply #47 on: September 16, 2012, 02:29:37 AM »
Cant access it 40...server is forbidden... hmm...

It's a site problem, @P... maybe some weekend blues...
Obsolete weapons do not deter. You do not base a defence policy on someone else's good intentions.
- Apr 7, 1989 [Baroness Margaret Thatcher, UK PM (1979-90)]

redcomet_m

  • Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 791
Re: Philippines Acquires MK38 Mod 2 Gun Systems for Navy
« Reply #48 on: September 16, 2012, 02:50:43 AM »
thread drft
@rem
the way i understand the vid rem is the four lobes i think is the detection area of the rounds and the strales own radar keeps the round as centered as possible for the most effective neutralization of the missile. does that mean that the ships best radar paints and plots the course of the missile and then the round simple covers those plots? mukha ngang alanganin pag me "kink" pero if you would notice there are two, not one, oto76s on that FREMM. I think Oto melaras idea is more coverage area if there are 2 76s onboard.

Could we say that oto melaras direction is bye bye dardos??

r3mu511@TMW

  • Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1047
Re: Philippines Acquires MK38 Mod 2 Gun Systems for Navy
« Reply #49 on: September 16, 2012, 03:17:20 AM »
the way i understand the vid rem is the four lobes i think is the detection area of the rounds and the strales own radar keeps the round as centered as possible
...

if by "detection area of the rounds" you mean the round itself is doing the "detecting" then this is a cosro or monopulse rear-facing seeker on each round... the converse view of the vid graphics is that the monopulse tracking is being done by the strales antenna itself on the rounds w/ guidance commands sent to the round via uplink... in w/c case "detection area of the rounds" is taken to mean the area in which the strales antenna lobes "look" for the round to be contained in... now determining w/c one strales really uses is the tricky bit  :lol:

does it matter? well cosro/monopulse seekers on each round would be more expensive than uplink receivers on each round...

perf. wise, seeker on each round would let the round keep a "tighter" path to the centroid of the 4 lobes, whereas if the strales antenna is doing the round tracking, the lobes would diverge from each other the further the round gets from the gun so this would result is some "drift/leeway" area in what would be considered the centroid of the 4 lobes... I suppose you can balance how far the "drift" from centroid would be at max engagement range (16km or so for the 75mm) vs. the kill radius of the air burst round, and if the drift distance is acceptable wrt pk then maybe oto would live with that (assuming that is the guidance mechanism it uses)...

...
does that mean that the ships best radar paints and plots the course of the missile and then the round simple covers those plots?
...

yup, that's what a beam riding pursuit-path round does: follow the beam w/c is locked onto the target... not very energy efficient esp. for unpowered rounds...

edit:

...
Could we say that oto melaras direction is bye bye dardos??

dunno... I'ld think oto melara's direction would be whatever sells more  :lol:
« Last Edit: September 16, 2012, 03:24:13 AM by r3mu511@TMW »

40niner_com

  • Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3984
  • Obsolete weapons do not deter.
Re: Philippines Acquires MK38 Mod 2 Gun Systems for Navy
« Reply #50 on: September 16, 2012, 06:14:02 AM »
[... thread drift pa rin]

Could we say that oto melaras direction is bye bye dardos??
I believe it's an evolutionary process.  The larger Italian surface warships (DDG and up) always have 76- vs 40mm as the point-defense / close-in anti-missile system.  The MAE contemporary DDLP class has Dardo(E) coupled with their three 76mms.  The evolutionary units (Doria/FREMM) still has retains the 76mm round, and even upgraded it (the caliber) with smart munitions.  It does have its guidance (RTN-30?//NA-25?) separate from the gun mounts themselves.  Still I think, the detection and resolution concept is still the same, although they are now more intricately tied with the CMS (PAAMS-IT/SAAM-ESD-IT).

« Last Edit: September 16, 2012, 06:16:39 AM by 40niner_com »
Obsolete weapons do not deter. You do not base a defence policy on someone else's good intentions.
- Apr 7, 1989 [Baroness Margaret Thatcher, UK PM (1979-90)]

r3mu511@TMW

  • Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1047
Re: Philippines Acquires MK38 Mod 2 Gun Systems for Navy
« Reply #51 on: September 16, 2012, 06:51:46 AM »
(...driftin' away we go... maybe time for a thread split? "ciws systems" perhaps?...)

interesting how the italians seem to love gun based ciws while US seems to be drifting over to missile based ciws (ram)... italians seem to like ship-based command-guidance (tracker+uplink or tracker+seeker) while US seems to be going for autonomous/all-up-in-round guidance (active, or passive as w/ ram)... so you end up with italian configs like that class with 4(!) rtn trackers for it's 4 guns (whew!)... US seems to like to hedge it's bets vs. saturation attacks at terminal phase w/ passive homing allowing for all rounds to be fired off w/o any need to dedicate a ship sensor for guiding each round during outbound flight...

hmm, maybe because US seems to focus a lot on the tactical picture keeping aspect of their cds/cms + quality of their active/passive homers, so if they get a really good and accurate track on contacts in the tactical picture, they then rely just on the round's sensor ability to intercept w/o any constant ship-based guidance needed... I mean you can see the same trend they're doing with their long range aaw intercepts w/ sarh limited to terminal phase and even then they use icwi so they can shift illuminators around... then you have the sm6 approach w/ ins+mcg/ul+arh, this would be like the poster child for a really good tactical picture + all-in-round guidance...

I guess this trend in the US is due to the blurring of lines b/w picture keeping and contact tracking, what with track updates via tws getting much faster (due to aesa/pesa) so you start to not need dedicated tracking (in the traditional sense of a fc director) anymore, couple that with better active and passive homers and you get something better suited to handling saturation attacks...

redcomet_m

  • Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 791
Re: Philippines Acquires MK38 Mod 2 Gun Systems for Navy
« Reply #52 on: September 16, 2012, 07:42:27 AM »
@49
an evolution worth looking at  :afro: now we have a primary gun that could attack surface targets (land or sea) and act as a better ranged CIWS freeing up space. Would it be far fetched that we would see a dual barreled 76mm in the future?

@rem
Is there an alternative solution that could, at the very minimum, imitate that kind of AA capability of a US ship? O kelangan AEGIS system talaga

r3mu511@TMW

  • Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1047
Re: Philippines Acquires MK38 Mod 2 Gun Systems for Navy
« Reply #53 on: September 16, 2012, 08:42:13 AM »
... at the very minimum, imitate that kind of AA capability of a US ship?

eek, you mean as in ~250km engagement range w/ at least 4 intercepts occurring at the same time (i.e. impact simultaneous) + god knows how many scheduled intercepts (who knows what the throughput intercept width per unit time of an aegis system is :lol: ) ... and thats for the pesa aegis, once you get aesa spy panels god only knows how many icwi effective "illuminators" it can form dynamically, so your guess is as good as mine as to how many simultaneous impact intercepts it can support... then you need to add in any sm6 non-sarh intercepts it can support (w/c means it's just effectively limited to the track bandwidth of aegis + of course the no. of birds on the ship, lol)

that's a mighty high standard you've set there to try and imitate chief...

I guess some form of paams + aster 30 would be your best bet of trying to get "somewhere there"  :lol:

redcomet_m

  • Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 791
Re: Philippines Acquires MK38 Mod 2 Gun Systems for Navy
« Reply #54 on: September 16, 2012, 02:49:28 PM »
^aaaa, an empar dome with sylver launchers. Can an empar be substituted with another brand of 3d radar? i mean maybe not at par with the EMPAR but... wait PAAMS work only on EMPARs and SAPMSONs...sheesh.
hahaha well rem it is about time to not settle for freebies or EDAs or somewhat not, aspire for something big if we want to project a capable navy, and at that a capable AAW frigate.
This PAAMS link is very interesting, ill google more
http://navy-matters.beedall.com/paams.htm

davemap

  • Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2195
Re: Philippines Acquires MK38 Mod 2 Gun Systems for Navy
« Reply #55 on: October 15, 2012, 01:15:11 AM »
PH gets guns for US-supplied ships

http://www.abs-cbnnews.com/nation/10/15/12/ph-gets-guns-us-supplied-ships

WASHINGTON D.C. - The Philippine Navy will get newer and more powerful guns that could augment weapons for two patrol ships acquired recently from the United States.

The Pentagon recently awarded a $24 million contract to Kentucky-based BAE Systems Land and Armaments for 21 Mark 38 Mod 2 chain guns for the US and Philippines navies.

The Philippines is procuring the guns under the Foreign Military Sales (FMS) program, a US Navy statement revealed.


....

The US had stripped the ship of her more sophisticated weapons before turning her over. The Mk 38 Mod 2 gun is an improved version of the 25mm Bushmaster that was taken off the BRP Del Pilar.

....

Another Hamilton-class cutter was retired in San Diego, California this month. A reliable source said the Philippines was seeing if it could get her as well.

....

Navy officials say the guns provide improved protection against small threats close aboard and even help crews with more mundane tasks, such as finding channel buoys.

The brochure boasts that “Line-of-fire stabilization enables the crew to effectively engage target in great precision from safe stand-off distance and rough sea conditions.” Operators can follow and fire at a target automatically using electro-optical and infrared sensors and a computer-integrated laser range finder.

If the sensors are disabled, gunner’s mates can manually aim and fire the gun. It has built-in batteries that allow it to operate for 2 hours even after the whole ship loses power.

""Ano'ng unethical? Talagang gagawin ko! Can you point out to me what law says that I cannot threaten criminals? Shut up!"
Mayor Rodrigo Duterte to CHR

“In our country, hundreds of millions of pesos of taxpayer money are squandered not only through corruption but also through projects that were conceived for worthy purposes but were discontinued and abandoned due to the ‘policy of no continuity.’”

Charito Planas

"Kung Ayaw mong Masaktan Mag-Chess Ka Na Lang"

Robert "Big J" Jaworski

redcomet_m

  • Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 791
Re: Philippines Acquires MK38 Mod 2 Gun Systems for Navy
« Reply #56 on: October 27, 2012, 10:11:29 PM »
PH Navy ship to get new weapons systems
ABS-CBNnews.com
Posted at 10/28/2012 11:28 AM | Updated as of 10/28/2012 12:18 PM
Pentagon awards $1.8M contract for BRP Alcaraz

MANILA, Philippines – The Pentagon has awarded a $1.8-million contract for the purchase of modern weapons system that will be installed in the BRP Ramon Alcaraz (PF16), the Philippines’ second high-endurance cutter recently acquired from the United States.

In a statement, the Philippine Embassy said the purchase and installation of two Mk38 Mod 2 autocanon systems for the Alcaraz is part of a $24-M contract recently awarded by the Pentagon to the Kentucky-based BAE Systems Land and Armaments Inc.

The BAE contract involves the purchase of 21 units of the remotely controlled naval gun systems and spare parts for both the US and Philippine navies, according to Capt. Elson Aguilar, Naval Attache at the Office of the Defense and Armed Forces Attache at the Philippine Embassy.

The Mk38 Mod 2 is designed to counter high-speed maneuvering surface targets and will be installed in almost all US surface ships by 2015. It was commissioned by the US Navy following the terrorist attack on the USS Cole in 2000.

"The Mk38 Mod 2 will allow the Alcaraz and the (BRP Gregorio) del Pilar to track and fire at targets automatically in both day and night using single shot, low-speed or high-speed automatic fire," Aguilar said.

He added that the autocanon can be fired manually if the sensors are damaged or if the vessels lose power.

The new weapons systems are upgraded versions of the Mk38 M242 Bushmasters, which were removed from the vessel prior to its turnover to the Philippines. The remotely controlled chain gun system can fire as many as 180 25-m rounds per minute at targets as far as two kilometers.

According to Aguilar, the two Mk38 Mod 2 systems will complement the existing weapons system that consists of the Mk75 76-mm Oto Melara main battery and four M2HB .50 caliber machine guns.

The weapons system for the BRP Del Pilar (PF15) will be covered under a separate contract, Aguilar said.

The Alcaraz is set to undergo a general overhaul of her port main diesel engine and further installation of navigational and electronics equipment, which is expected to take 11 weeks.


i guess now we know there are 2 mk38s on the alcaraz. New navi and elec equipment, although no mention of specifics. So i guess...no radars eh?  :?

r3mu511@TMW

  • Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1047
Re: Philippines Acquires MK38 Mod 2 Gun Systems for Navy
« Reply #57 on: October 27, 2012, 10:45:06 PM »
^ iirc nav radar of Goyo (ditched sps73) was replaced by a furuno set (same front-end/transceiver but diff back-end/radar processor from the hughes sps73) so maybe same for PF16 as well... who knows maybe "new elect. equip." covers air search radar  :lol:
« Last Edit: October 27, 2012, 10:57:22 PM by r3mu511@TMW »

redcomet_m

  • Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 791
Re: Philippines Acquires MK38 Mod 2 Gun Systems for Navy
« Reply #58 on: October 28, 2012, 02:47:34 AM »
^dyusme furuno?? nakteteng naman  :shock: :shock: ill just reserve my frustrations after the alcaraz arrives.
Ill cut PN some slack since at least they have sail plan 2020.

r3mu511@TMW

  • Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1047
Re: Philippines Acquires MK38 Mod 2 Gun Systems for Navy
« Reply #59 on: October 28, 2012, 03:17:28 AM »
^ well don't be so hard on furuno sets  :lol:  the orig sps73 was after all a furuno front-end with a hughes back-end rvp (radar processor) so at least having a full furuno set is 50% equiv to the orig surface-search/nav radar of the orig whecs...