Author Topic: 6 more countries offer to sell warships to Philippines - DND  (Read 78812 times)

TheInsider

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6 more countries offer to sell warships to Philippines - DND
« on: January 05, 2013, 09:13:05 PM »
http://www.interaksyon.com/article/52035/6-more-countries-offer-to-sell-warships-to-philippines---dnd


MANILA - At least six foreign countries are offering frigates to the Philippines after the Department of National Defense (DND) expressed interest in purchasing at least two more warships to boost territorial defense amid the dispute at West Philippine Sea.

Fernando Manalo, Defense Undersecretary for finance, munitions, installations and materiel, disclosed that aside from Italy, countries that are offering their frigates are South Korea, Spain, United States, Israel, Croatia, and Australia.

Manalo said that earlier, the Philippines is only eyeing the refurbished Maestrale-class frigates from the Italian navy worth over P11 billion, but more countries have made their offers in the latter part of 2012.

“Other countries are now just being convinced that the Armed Forces of the Philippines (AFP) is serious in its efforts to make itself stronger and more credible,” Manalo said.

Manalo further disclosed that some of the countries were offering brand new frigates. He added that the DND is still in the process of conducting studies to determine which type of frigate will be best for the country.

He said the department hopes to come up with a decision by the end of January. “Within this month something must happen,” Manalo said.

“Due diligence is being exercised here because we are talking of billions of pesos,” he added.

Meanwhile, the AFP’s Western Command has not monitored any Chinese vessels on disputed territories at West Philippine Sea.

Air reconnaissance conducted Thursday showed no signs of Chinese warships, said Lieutenant General Juancho Sabban, Western Command commander.

“As per information from my commanders, we conducted aerial recon (Thursday), we didn’t see any of the new vessels that China said they will deploy to West Philippine Sea, and I understand also that from reports (that) China already retracted its statement that they will board and search all vessels passing through West Philippine Sea. I think this is a good development,” Sabban said.

arkitek4

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Re: 6 more countries offer to sell warships to Philippines - DND
« Reply #1 on: January 05, 2013, 09:33:33 PM »
He said the department hopes to come up with a decision by the end of January. “Within this month something must happen,” Manalo said.

Now I can wait... :bravo:
"Only through space can one exits" D.L.L.M.D.

troll

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Re: 6 more countries offer to sell warships to Philippines - DND
« Reply #2 on: January 05, 2013, 09:38:48 PM »
Israel, SOKOR, Italia would be the best as far Italy gave their ships on a good package deal 

Private_Pen

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Re: 6 more countries offer to sell warships to Philippines - DND
« Reply #3 on: January 05, 2013, 10:30:15 PM »
Since the Philippines is eyeing the Maestrale Class Frigates already which the vessels specializes on anti-submarine warfare, there's still room to entertain other countries offer to address other needs such as the required minimum capability for 6 anti-air warfare Frigates and 12 ASW Corvettes. But IMO, since the Philippines had started on an Italian naval technology and vessel design and weaponry with the Maestrales, I think it's better to go all Italian for consistency and familiarity with the systems and weaponry. And if the Philippines is considering brand new ships, the Italian FREMM Frigate is considered one of today's best. Besides, the way I'm seeing the Italians giving us a good deal with their package offer covering other areas (not just naval) such as the Agusta choppers and the M113's for our troopers, this is something that the other countries has yet to match.
-Just my two centavos worth of thought.
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cesmeria

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Re: 6 more countries offer to sell warships to Philippines - DND
« Reply #4 on: January 05, 2013, 10:33:49 PM »
Having six countries offerring the same merchandise is good for us!more sweeteners in the deal is the least that I can think of to be offered to us. :beer:
''Avoid war by preparing for it.'' - Gen.Martin Dempsey

cesmeria

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Re: 6 more countries offer to sell warships to Philippines - DND
« Reply #5 on: January 05, 2013, 10:42:07 PM »
Since the Philippines is eyeing the Maestrale Class Frigates already which the vessels specializes on anti-submarine warfare, there's still room to entertain other countries offer to address other needs such as the required minimum capability for 6 anti-air warfare Frigates and 12 ASW Corvettes. But IMO, since the Philippines had started on an Italian naval technology and vessel design and weaponry with the Maestrales, I think it's better to go all Italian for consistency and familiarity with the systems and weaponry. And if the Philippines is considering brand new ships, the Italian FREMM Frigate is considered one of today's best. Besides, the way I'm seeing the Italians giving us a good deal with their package offer covering other areas (not just naval) such as the Agusta choppers and the M113's for our troopers, this is something that the other countries has yet to match.
-Just my two centavos worth of thought.
You have a point there.But if you will consider the beauty of having six of them trying to win the contract of supplying two warships to us;matching the Italian offer or even surpassing them at some point is not impossible;considering the six countries mentioned has enough military surplus to spare as a ''sweetener'';DND has more options to choose from at this point on.
''Avoid war by preparing for it.'' - Gen.Martin Dempsey

TheInsider

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Re: 6 more countries offer to sell warships to Philippines - DND
« Reply #6 on: January 05, 2013, 11:11:03 PM »
dnd undersecretary for finance, munitions, installations and materiel Fernando manalo



(at least five, ano offer nun) frigate, frigate,(OPV?), corvette
(competitors ng Italy) i cansay , it can be treated as competitor yes
(not final maestrale) unless kasi napirmahan na yung kontrato
(pinagpipilian, lima plus Italy) ang proseso is we are just validating whether pagka ikonompare mo yung maestrale dito sa mga bagong offer ay masasabi natin na panalo tayo dito, dumating kasi yung offer nitong late na e
(kelan) ang daming late, towards the end of 2012
(kelan nagoffer lima) actually 2012 nagkadating na, towards the end, o last quarter
(Italy nagoffer) halos, ang official visit namin dun e January 2012 nagusap na kami tungkol dun sa maestrali, nagusap na kami
(ilan frigates) at least two frigates
(capability wise, ano difference ng inoofer ng Italy at saka nung fivecountries)nandun pa tayo dun sa pagdevelop ng matrix that will compare the maestrale from the different proposals and from the different frigates that are being offered by other countries orthat are available, in other words this is the process, there will just be a validation kasi mahirap naman na Makita natin na may mga, kasi pag nagpirmihan na tayo dun tapos lalabas na yung issue na bumili kayo that amount e itong ganitong binibenta namin
(same budget) same yung budget same lang
(we are also considering offer of five other countries) depende, pag halimbawa ay in our validation ay lumalabas na there are reasons to believe na we have to look into this offer, we have tolook into this offer, not necessarily disregarding, kasi pwed emo silang isubject toa limited source bidding e, yung sa Italy kasi nakafix tayo dun sa 50million euros dun sa flatform, walang problema yun, that is the amount that we are going to pay sa Italian navy govt yun, but to make it something na magagamit natin sa...kailangan yung complete refurbishiment ibababa mo sa same time yung flatform and it will cost a substantialamount
(second hand) scond hand
(five countries, puro second hand) no mga bago to, we are trying to compare these frigate nab ago or kung may available na frigate na luma then icocompare dinnatin, it is a process of doing a due diligence para hindi tayo magkamali kasi hindi naman to isang milyon lang e, hindinaman ito isang daang milyon lang e, billion of pesos e, napakahirap na mapaso tayo dito
(no final source, no final supplier of frigates) yes bottomline is wala pa, but we have to () that theprocss is just to validate that  our initial market research na kinonduct ay talagang panalo tayo dun sa maestrale
(hindi sara door to other offers) that is if there will be reasons na, iwiden yung choice
(timeline) immediately, within January something must happen



slinger

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Re: 6 more countries offer to sell warships to Philippines - DND
« Reply #7 on: January 05, 2013, 11:33:42 PM »
That's what political will can do..
The effort of key people in the government in pushing for the new modernization law pave the way for this..

Those nations i believed watched us for so long.. Observing if we are indeed serious..
Note the word fromthe interview.. Most offered late. Not until the new law was passed.. Or on the stage of being passed already.. With the new law passed. It means the government is indeed serious..

Just hope that politicians will see this..
That i think is the purpose of the press release..

High hopes.. Still as per some people here says.. "Not until the rubber hits the road"..

Strength and Honor - from the movie Gladiator

phichanad

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Re: 6 more countries offer to sell warships to Philippines - DND
« Reply #8 on: January 06, 2013, 12:24:12 AM »
This just make things more complicated, does the DND mean they can still jump off the Maestrale offer just because some other groups offered their wares albeit late? It does not look good for the DND if they do this.

Also, does Croatia and Israel have the capability to build frigates? Croatia only has missile boats in its inventory, while Israel's Sa'ar V corvette was built by Ingalls (Northrop Grumman) of the US (incidentally this was the same platform offered by the US during Pres. Estrada's time, which was rejected by Orly Mercado).

It might be possible that the US, Spain and Australia are offering their used Oliver Hazard Perry class frigates,. Australia (Adelaide class) is about to release and replaced by their Hobart class AAW, Spain (Santa Maria class) are being replaced by the F110 class (although the ships might only be available in the late decade), while the US has a lot of Perrys to release this year alone. The Perry was already "rejected" before because of the absence of diesel engines, and in the US Perry's case, the absence of the Mk.13 arm missile launcher. Would it not be possible for PN to increase their frigate requirement, although I am still hoping the Maestrales push through, the Navy should already start planning to buy new ships after them instead of more used platforms. The used platforms are only best to jumpstart our capability while we are waiting for more funds to arrive, and to give time for new builds to arrive.

Actually what I'm thinking is that they will be offering new build OPVs and possibly used friagates as well.
« Last Edit: January 06, 2013, 12:34:32 AM by phichanad »

arkitek4

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Re: 6 more countries offer to sell warships to Philippines - DND
« Reply #9 on: January 06, 2013, 12:37:13 AM »
This just make things more complicated, does the DND mean they can still jump off the Maestrale offer just because some other groups offered their wares albeit late? It does not look good for the DND if they do this.

Also, does Croatia and Israel have the capability to build frigates? Croatia only has missile boats in its inventory, while Israel's Sa'ar V corvette was built by Ingalls (Northrop Grumman) of the US (incidentally this was the same platform offered by the US during Pres. Estrada's time, which was rejected by Orly Mercado).

It might be possible that the US and Australia are offering their used Oliver Hazard Perry class frigates, which Australia is about to release and replaced by their Hobart class AAW, while the US has a lot of Perrys to release this year alone. The Perry was already "rejected" before because of the absence of diesel engines, and in the US Perry's case, the absence of the Mk.13 arm missile launcher. Would it not be possible for PN to increase their frigate requirement, although I am still hoping the Maestrales push through, the Navy should already start planning to buy new ships after them instead of more used platforms. The used platforms are only best to jumpstart our capability while we are waiting for more funds to arrive, and to give time for new builds to arrive.

Well, the mere mention of late offers does give one a hindsight on the probability that the DND might choose something else otherwise why mention it? But as per this thread is concerned that something must happen within this month I'm hopeful that the DND will recommend something that will be advantageous to the PH. Kakainip lang it has been one long ride the waiting for me is killing me, and I can only imagine what the men and women in uniform must be feeling.

At least 3 heli's is expected sometime 2014, and the Alcaraz malapit na.  :smoke:
"Only through space can one exits" D.L.L.M.D.

troll

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Re: 6 more countries offer to sell warships to Philippines - DND
« Reply #10 on: January 06, 2013, 12:42:22 AM »
If the case that DND will not acquire the Italian made ships bec. of some offer from other countries. That is not being a good idea as it is a sign deal. I would be prefer that they will stick on Italia for their hardware's as Italia give a nice offer for the Philippines.

40niner_com

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Re: 6 more countries offer to sell warships to Philippines - DND
« Reply #11 on: January 06, 2013, 01:38:53 AM »
A factor that is surely being considered is the operational availability or when we can have ready for operational deployment. 

Way back in (late) 2011, it was described as a DWPV requirement, where most often it eventually evolved or had specifically choosen Maestrale FFG as best fit for the requirement.  Also the latest interview revealed the $66M bareboat cost for the Maestrale. 

... if the Philippines is considering brand new ships, the Italian FREMM Frigate is considered one of today's best.

FREMM at around €550M ($725M or P29.6B) per unit is way beyond our current 5-year budget.
Obsolete weapons do not deter. You do not base a defence policy on someone else's good intentions.
- Apr 7, 1989 [Baroness Margaret Thatcher, UK PM (1979-90)]

40niner_com

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Re: 6 more countries offer to sell warships to Philippines - DND
« Reply #12 on: January 06, 2013, 01:46:30 AM »
This just make things more complicated, does the DND mean they can still jump off the Maestrale offer just because some other groups offered their wares albeit late? It does not look good for the DND if they do this.

I think this actually give credibility and transparecy to the Maestrale's (or relative) acquisition including cost as it will provide solid comparative data. 

As what the interview had said, this is the process.  But what was facilitated by RA10349 is that the final decision only rest with PNoy and no longer need a concurrence of Congress; but rather just informing them on what was decided. 
Obsolete weapons do not deter. You do not base a defence policy on someone else's good intentions.
- Apr 7, 1989 [Baroness Margaret Thatcher, UK PM (1979-90)]

jaypee

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Re: 6 more countries offer to sell warships to Philippines - DND
« Reply #13 on: January 06, 2013, 03:03:13 AM »
I agree with you Sir 40, knowing typical Filipino "culture" Some will definitely bash the maestrale for being old and will surely say what about other offers especially the new ones. This is a good opportunity for DND to compare and JUSTIFY that indeed maestrale is the best choice given the requirements PN need and our limited budget.

shalelord1@tmw

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Re: 6 more countries offer to sell warships to Philippines - DND
« Reply #14 on: January 06, 2013, 03:35:49 AM »
thanks.Insider for this raw interview kinda confusing yung ibang sagot ni usec pero I'm happy other countries are looking at us now hindi na tayo sore eyes sa kanila.  Only thing is if we back oit from the Maestrale deal eh will it be a bad star since the DND have been talking with the Italians for quite a while now since January of 2012 pa and if we end up buying another one we.might end up having a black star again in our reputation.  So shall we proceed woth Maestrale or reconsider other offers because we have to rememeber PN needs those assets out there Asap