Author Topic: South Korean Navy launches new missile patrol vessel  (Read 9225 times)

israeli

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Re: South Korean Navy launches new missile patrol vessel
« Reply #15 on: July 01, 2007, 04:44:47 AM »
i'm just curious.

is this the first time that waterjet technology is used on a ship of that size (a 500 ton missile boat)?  :?:

i agree with bustero. we can really have these modern Korean missile boats built here in the Philippines should we show interest in having them. you will not only offset the costs of actually acquiring CBUs from abroad because the ships will be locally built but you will also help provide more jobs to Filipinos. :)
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bustero

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Re: South Korean Navy launches new missile patrol vessel
« Reply #16 on: July 01, 2007, 07:29:57 AM »
Shouldn't be, I'm pretty sure there are some larger ships this these. I seem to recall some corvettes or perhaps even the visby being propelled by such mechanisms.  Needless to say that the choice for such a propulsion unit is predicated on variety of items of reference of which operational cost is only one. :)

sandstig

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Re: South Korean Navy launches new missile patrol vessel
« Reply #17 on: July 01, 2007, 09:45:11 AM »
Correct, Visby-class corvettes are propelled by water jets, and so are the Göteborg-class.

Delbert Lee

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Re: South Korean Navy launches new missile patrol vessel
« Reply #18 on: July 01, 2007, 09:15:12 PM »
Actually if the pruices of $10Million USD per ship was correct and accurate. It was considered very cheap already... But I would comment much on the vessels cost because I still have no idea....

But if it is true that it only cost $10million USD. I do believe the Philippine Navy must take that opportunity to close a deal and purchase some...

Just try to imagine a brandnew cyclone class vessels when it was launched in the US. It cost more than 20$ million USD per ship, yet it was not yet a missile gunboat.

I hope to see the Philippine Navy to be equiped by atleast 24 missile gunboat before the end of this decade (2010). (|;)
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scks2bu

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Re: South Korean Navy launches new missile patrol vessel
« Reply #19 on: July 01, 2007, 09:55:20 PM »
All the HSV's are waterjet i.e. HSV-X1 Joint Venture (decommisioned), TSV Spearhead (US Army) and HSV-2 Swift (US Navy). The only problem with this system is, it's hard to use it in really shallow waters due to the fact that it's suctions can pretty much suck anything under the boat. So, if you have one of these, dont be alarmed if Greenpeace will be on your back due to the whale or dolphin you killed 5 miles astern of ya  :thumbsup:

bustero

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Re: South Korean Navy launches new missile patrol vessel
« Reply #20 on: July 02, 2007, 03:20:21 AM »
Quickly offhand, hard to compare the cyclone with this boat. We don't have the complete specs. The survivability aspect for example is not too clear with this boat (though i suspect that as a cheaper patrol craft it's not that capable in that department). So system redundancies and even thickness of armour may vary to a huge degree. That being said it would not hurt to look at it. But knowing the PN they're probably more interested in a cost effective scheme like a couple more PKMs. Among the bigger boats I think high on their wishlist would be the LST endeavor class of RSN and a more capable corvette.

jammerjamesky

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Re: South Korean Navy launches new missile patrol vessel
« Reply #21 on: July 02, 2007, 03:58:12 AM »
Based on my observation if we really want to see a future of building a PKMX in the Philippines is it will still be built in HANJIN Shipyard to assure that South Koreans has the control of the quality of the work. The reality is the costly issue when it comes to and equipments and armaments. I'm sure older threads will suggest and speak that the hull building here in the country is not a problem but the types of equipment being fitted into the ship. 

We already cut the cost of the ship in terms of hull and keel building but the ARMAMENT issue will have a long way to go if we really have to fit them exactly what the South Korean do on their ship.Technological Transfer leak is what most of our counterparts concern when it comes to our side.


javaman

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Re: South Korean Navy launches new missile patrol vessel
« Reply #22 on: July 03, 2007, 05:29:16 PM »
Nice looking boats with some stealth features.  Good research in finding the pics.
 :bravo:

If I may add, check this site to see some video of what a boat powered by water jets can do. (http://www.sea-doo.com/en-US/)

Regarding the cost of $10 million USD, it sure sounds cheap IF TRUE.  I can't help comparing it to the cost of acquiring a brand new helicopter.  Ok... I know I should not compare them since the two are totally different.  But since we are an archipelago with rampant smuggling and piracy issues, I'd rather have the boat than the chopper.

And why go for big ticket items such as LST or corvettes?  It has been argued before that our navy personnel do not have the technical skills in maintaining modern vessels.  Would getting a corvette that costs around $200million USD (I'm basing this on the CAE offer some years back for the PN) be any different?

Would it not make more sense to develop the technical skills of the navy on a cheaper but equally sophisticated vessel?  This way we can enhance the navy's capabililty and growth from the bottom-up.

As a taxpayer, I feel more assured thinking our $200million investment on ONE(1) ship will not go down to the bottom of the sea with one fatal mistake or incompetence by its crew or captain.  What are the chance of that happening at the same time if we got twenty(20) of this SK missile boats instead?

My just two cents of thoughts...  :D

atty_rcb

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Re: South Korean Navy launches new missile patrol vessel
« Reply #23 on: July 03, 2007, 11:37:27 PM »
Would getting a corvette that costs around $200million USD (I'm basing this on the CAE offer some years back for the PN) be any different?

can u enlighten me on the offer including the specs and design? thanks... peace....
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Cardinal

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Re: South Korean Navy launches new missile patrol vessel
« Reply #24 on: July 04, 2007, 12:15:47 AM »

Regarding the cost of $10 million USD, it sure sounds cheap IF TRUE.

What makes you think it's cheap vis-a-vis other similar vessels currently in service with other navies?

Would it not make more sense to develop the technical skills of the navy on a cheaper but equally sophisticated vessel?

Let's see, you wanna make it on the cheap, yet equally sophisticated...hmmm, how do you propose to achieve that? your concept please?


Aogin

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Re: South Korean Navy launches new missile patrol vessel
« Reply #25 on: July 04, 2007, 07:12:52 AM »
Found this while browsing.

http://commercial.apolloduck.com/listings.phtml?cid=23

If there are any Navy Officers in this forum, could you take a look at this page if we have a need for these kinds of ship.
« Last Edit: July 04, 2007, 07:34:47 AM by Aogin »
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javaman

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Re: South Korean Navy launches new missile patrol vessel
« Reply #26 on: July 04, 2007, 07:29:02 AM »
Would getting a corvette that costs around $200million USD (I'm basing this on the CAE offer some years back for the PN) be any different?

can u enlighten me on the offer including the specs and design? thanks... peace....
To enlighten you on this, kindly use or refer to these previous posts:
http://timawa.net/forum/index.php?topic=1883.0
http://timawa.net/forum/index.php?topic=281.0

There was an offer to make three corvettes for the navy but due to the budget deficit it was cancelled.


What makes you think it's cheap vis-a-vis other similar vessels currently in service with other navies?

Let's see, you wanna make it on the cheap, yet equally sophisticated...hmmm, how do you propose to achieve that? your concept please?



To answer your first question, maybe this will enlighten you when I said "it's cheap" at $10million USD.
You will find this info in this site: http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?mode=hybrid&t=471334

Patrol Craft/Missile Boats/Special Operations Crafts
1. Fearless Class FAC[M]
Price: $40 million USD
Production Rights: $1.6 billion USD

2. Flyvetisken Class PC/MCM
Price: $40.8 million USD
Production Rights: $1.632 billion USD

3. River Class PG/MSC
Price: $58 million USD
Production Rights: $2.320 billion USD

4. Fremantle Class Patrol Boat/4A. Armidale Class Patrol Boat
Price: $16.8 million USD[Fremantle]/$18 million USD[Armidale]
Production Rights: $672 million USD[Fremantle]/$720 million USD[Armidale]

5. Cyclone Class PCF
Price: $31.5 million USD
Production Rights: $1.260 billion USD

6. Island Class WPB
Price: $10.5 million USD
Production Rights: $420 million USD

7. Gepard Class PCFG
Price: $28 million USD
Production Rights: $1.120 billion USD

8. Helsinki Class FAC
Price: $18 million USD
Production Rights: $720 million USD

9. Tarantul Class FAC
Price: $40.5 million USD
Production Rights: $1.62 billion USD

10. Barzan (Vita) Class FAC[M]
Price: $31.5 million USD
Production Rights: $1.26 billion USD

11. Commandante Class Corvette
Price: $58 million USD
Production Rights: $2.32 billion USD

12. Kingston Class Corvette
Price: $50 million USD
Production Rights: $2 billion USD

13. Roussen Class (62 Metre Super Vita) FAC[M]
Price: $41 million USD
Production Rights: $1.64 billion USD

14. Sa'ar 5 Class (INS Eilat) Corvette
Price: $56 million USD
Production Rights: $2.24 billion USD

15. Littoral Combat Ship (LCS) Corvette
Price: $200 million USD
Production Rights: $8 billion USD

16. Mark V Special Operations Craft
Price: $8 million USD
Production Rights: $320 million USD

17. Famous/Reliance class Medium Endurance cutters
Price: $58 USD[Famous Class]/$54 million USD [Reliance Class]
Production Rights $2.32 billion USD[Famous Class]/$2.16 billion USD [Reliance Class]

18. Laksamana Class Corvette
Price: $45 million USD
Production Rights: $1.8 billion USD

19. MEKO A Class Corvette
Price: $58 million USD
Production Rights: $2.320 billion USD

20. Mirage Class (Type 14310) Patrol Boat
Price: $10 million USD
Production Rights: $400 million USD

21. Nakhoda Ragam Class Corvette
Price: $58 million USD
Production Rights: $2.320 billion USD

22. Qahir Class Corvette
Price: $58 million USD
Production Rights: $2.320 billion USD

23. Roisin Class Corvette
Price: $58 million USD
Production Rights: $2.320 billion USD

24. Um Al Maradim Class (Combattante 1) FAC[M]
Price: $17.8 million USD
Production Rights: $712 million USD

25. Visby Class FAC[M]
Price: $41 million USD
Production Rights: $1.64 billion USD

27. Pauk class corvette
Price: $30.5 million USD
Production Rights: $1.22 billion USD


To answer your second and third questions, maybe this will help.

The South Korean Gumdoksuri class patrol vessel, also known as the PKX class (Patrol Killer eXperimental) has the follwing specs:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Gumdoksuri.jpg

Class Overview
Class Type    Patrol boat
General Characteristics
Displacement:    ~400 to 450 tons
Length:    206.7 ft (63 m)
Beam:    29.5 ft (9 m)
Speed:    41.5 knots (75.9 km/h)
Complement:    40 crew members
Armament:    • 76 mm naval gun
• 40 mm naval gun
• KSSM anti-ship missile launcher

Aside from the water jet propulsion system, the PKX will be using the CEROS 200.  It is an advanced Fire Control Director system that includes radar and optronic sensors.  The system, developed and produced by SaabTech in Jarfalla, Sweden, is of the same type as the one supplied for the Swedish navy's Visby-class corvettes, and recently ordered by the Finnish navy for its Squadron 2000 vessels and the Norwegian navy for its Skjold-class Fast Patrol Boats. Another version of the system is in operational use on Finnish Rauma ships and Australian ANZAC craft, for example.  (http://press.arrivenet.com/autos/article.php/264237.html)

With the water jet propulsion system and CEROS 200 system, at $10million USD, for me it still has a degree of sophistication as a modern patrol and missile vessel.  :)
« Last Edit: July 04, 2007, 10:09:13 PM by javaman »

Aogin

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Re: South Korean Navy launches new missile patrol vessel
« Reply #27 on: July 04, 2007, 08:18:20 AM »
If he Koreans price their boats at $10 each how much does a Japanese boat like the Hayabusa cost?

http://www.vspg.net/jmsdf/pg-hayabusa-class.html

PG Hayabusa Class


Specifications
Standard Displacement    200t
Length    50 m
Width    8.4 m
Depth    4.2 m
Draft    1.7 m
# Propulsion    3 x Ishikawajima Harima LM-500
# 3 x propulsion shafts
# 3 x water jet pumps
Horsepower    16,000ps
Maximum Speed    44kts
Crew    21
# Armament    1 x 76mm 62cal rapid fire gun
# 1 x SSM-1B antiship missile
# 1 x surface search radar
# 1 x navigation radar

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/japan/hayabusa-specs.htm
« Last Edit: July 04, 2007, 08:20:18 AM by Aogin »
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bustero

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Re: South Korean Navy launches new missile patrol vessel
« Reply #28 on: July 04, 2007, 10:06:21 AM »
I don't think this boat and a $200m corvette is being on the same page!

That list is funny it's like a used car dealership hehe.  A lot of it is not applicable and quite old. It may not fit the current doctrine and plans of the PN.

The LST is top of the list I think for the big boats. I actually think a few LSV's would be more applicable and realistic but thats just me. The Endeavor Class is obviously for power projection in our far flung archipelago (we have to actually make our own people believe !) And of course for actual power projection.

The Corvette program, matagal na iyan. That's really in recognition that the big boat fleet needs to get upgraded. Obviously different ang purpose nito from these Korean boats. And in the long run I'm sure the Navy guys are thinking of long run applicability rather than opportunistic procurement. Kung ganito lang they will probably go for an even cheaper option like the PKM. Can't go to wrong with the price, capability, and applicability.

Actually for big items like these the most relevant question would really: what kind of financing can the seller or exporting country come up with. It's one reason the PN is not to keen to procure big ticket items locally even if the yards here are capable.

javaman

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Re: South Korean Navy launches new missile patrol vessel
« Reply #29 on: July 04, 2007, 01:42:19 PM »
I don't think this boat and a $200m corvette is being on the same page!

That list is funny it's like a used car dealership hehe.  A lot of it is not applicable and quite old. It may not fit the current doctrine and plans of the PN.

The LST is top of the list I think for the big boats. I actually think a few LSV's would be more applicable and realistic but thats just me. The Endeavor Class is obviously for power projection in our far flung archipelago (we have to actually make our own people believe !) And of course for actual power projection.

The Corvette program, matagal na iyan. That's really in recognition that the big boat fleet needs to get upgraded. Obviously different ang purpose nito from these Korean boats. And in the long run I'm sure the Navy guys are thinking of long run applicability rather than opportunistic procurement. Kung ganito lang they will probably go for an even cheaper option like the PKM. Can't go to wrong with the price, capability, and applicability.

Actually for big items like these the most relevant question would really: what kind of financing can the seller or exporting country come up with. It's one reason the PN is not to keen to procure big ticket items locally even if the yards here are capable.


I agree with you on all accounts.  :beer:

The PKX is not in the same class as a corvette.  I simply used the comparison to address the point that the Phil navy have old ships using old technologies.  We want a capable navy comparable to our neighboring countries.  But as argued time and again, we do not have the budget for it.  Not having a classy corvette should not stop the navy from learning and upgrading its technical skills if they can get a patrol boat or fast attack craft with some of the systems a corvette has.  Hopefully when the time we are more economically able to acquire such corvettes, the navy has already learned to use and maintain some of the same systems installed in these corvettes.  An example of such systems can be the Fire Control Systems, propulsion system, weapons systems, and navigational systems. 

There were earlier discussions or threads in this forum regarding the problems the navy had when maintaining the Peacock or Jacinto class vessels.  Hopefully the navy has learned its lesson from this experience.

The more sophisticated a ship gets, the bigger and more expensive it gets.  I'm simply suggesting getting the simpler things first before acquiring the more complicated ones.  There is a saying "He who cannot be counted to handle little things cannot be counted on to handle bigger responsibilities."

About the list,  :) yup it sure looks like the kind you see in "buy and sell".  I was asked to justify my opinion when I said "it sure sounds cheap IF TRUE".   Hopefully the list settles this.   :)

I also agree when you said: "I actually think a few LSV's would be more applicable and realistic but thats just me".  If the navy needs to project and show the flag in the farthest reaches of our islands maybe 2nd hand US CoastGuard Hamilton class boats can be more suitable.

I am NOT fully sold on the idea of the PKX and still skeptic about it.  Remember it is actually a experimental project for the Koreans.  Maybe when it has been used, tried, and tested, then that's time we can discuss this again.  There are many other boats available in the market.