If theres one thing this thread and its companion thread in the Military Trends subforum has succeeded in doing, its showing our people's mettle. Take a bow, gents, you make all of us Filipinos proud. Hint:
Im being sarcastic.
Mr. Tagalacion has made the most sensible post so far, and I propose we take that into consideration:
Even if there was a valid referendum held among Sabah occupants, it still wouldn't have mattered. If you owned a piece of land that's been occupied by squatters for years, will it really matter to you if a referendum among them said that 100% of them wanted to continue staying on your land against your will? Of course not. That is not their choice to make. They don't even have the right to make that choice.
As for the other arguments put forward here opposing our continued pursuit of Sabah...
Pointing out how poor and weak the Philippines is against Malaysia doesn't mean our case for Sabah is equally weak and is completely beside the point. In fact, that argument misses the point completely. To go with that argument is to also argue that might makes right.
Saying we'd only invite another insurgency and unrest in Sabah once we get it back is also wildly inconsequential. What does that matter to the legal arguments about Sabah's true ownership? Will you let squatters stay on your land simply because they might get 'angry' if you told them to leave?
And why insist on dragging the Sultan of Sulu's heirs into this argument? They have no legal standing on this matter. The previous undisputed Sultan of Sulu had already ceded his sultanate's rights to Sabah over to the Republic of the Philippines in the 60's. This legal standing to pursue the claim now belongs to the Republic of the Philippines, not the late sultan's heirs.
Let's not be misled by claims this 'cession' of rights had already been rescinded by one of the heirs either. First of all, it's not even clear who the real Sultan of Sulu is as there are currently 5 claimants IIRC. Since the 'cession' was given by the undisputed Sultan of Sulu during the 60's, what right do mere claimants have to rescind it?
The discussion about the Sabah claim should center around legal concepts and dispassionate arguments. There is no call to ridicule opposing opinions nor to appeal to emotions. If one must argue against our pursuit of Sabah, one must at least present valid legal arguments about why Sabah should no longer belong to PH.
One could always borrow Malaysia's arguments on this issue, except - come to think of it - they really don't have one, do they? Otherwise, they'd have faced us in the world court over this issue by now.
But for this thread's discussion on the so-called 'standoff', feel free to ridicule the crumbling House of Kiram all you want. Just don't assume that the unfitness and hypocrisy of the heirs of the Sultan of Sulu diminishes the rights of the Republic of the Philippines with regards to Sabah.
Of course, the problem is that none of us here are experts in international law, although some pretend to be. And with our pretentious ways we either blindly defend the Sultan's actions or willingly give away real estate. But for this thread and its companion thread to be of any real value to its readers, the discussion --- should it continue --- must be based on "legal concepts and dispassionate arguments
." Otherwise, it only fuels anger and degrades the forum.
This forum deteriorates not only because of unnecessary and/or illogical posts pertaining to defense equipment, unecessary and/or illogical posts on other matters degrades it as well. I hope everyone understands that.
Gentlemen, at what point do you think we should stop this forum melee?